You are stuck in old meta whch killed Eve
We get it, you had a bad experience with the game and would prefer to see it changed to how you want it to be.
Thankfully that isn’t your decision.
Its none of our choices, actually, and that includes ccp. all they can do now is look at the opinion and pass it up. To be honest, from the sound of the system, most of this stuff is a waste of time; when i start believing that is the point i start jumping over ceo’s heads and going to bod and investors to convince them if they want positive change in the game, they need to start firing ceos.
People are out crying for the changes im advocating for, you guys are trying to suppress it.
This abuse needs to stop.
You will find that you are part of a small minority that is crying for the changes you suggest.
I mean on these forums, in recent times, that minority has been Balos and LSG. Do you really want to be part of that?
Having read quite a number of your posts now, I still don’t feel like you’ve ever given a concrete argument for your opinion other than “I’m right and the game needs to comply to my wishes, otherwise it will die”.
Present solid arguments and people will have a rational discussion with you.
Must of missed something, clueless about these terms.
Wait, increasing the population of eve by double is not a valid, concrete argument? Is that you, my bff, on another alt?
Not only that but it’s always been the same topic - mining and ganking in highsec.
They still don’t address some of the things I mentioned earlier in the thread (or even attempt to).
It’s a hypothesis. It’s not concrete. You have no evidence of this happening, or at least not presented a solid argument that would support that hypothesis.
If you cannot even see that “Do this and the sub numbers will double” is not a solid argument, then you are lost.
Send me your ISK and I will double it. Ignore the naysayers, I’m telling you it is the truth.
There is no promise, no. But its a far more likely option then “kill the noobs” or “keep beating the noobs up”.Evidence for that? Because people got a lot happier with the war eligibility system. Make the change, i dare you. You will see i am right, i think we both know it, but your scared to be wrong.
Hmm lets do the math on this
Potential PvP population = maybe 50% of all mmo gamers, and only around 20% Do only
pvp the people that dont want pvp
many mmo’s demonstrating 80% of the population is pve based.
Which is more likely to have the biggest impact on population?
Dont be intellectually dishonest. Your wrong, and we both know it, and any designer with intelligence knows it.
no, there is no promise on any system, but there is likely hoods (percentage chance), and in this case, the population will grow 100% chance of it.
They would also know the negative stigma concerning PVP and why it has that association, and how despite people not wanting to fight other players the most “successful” games have players fighting other players thanks to nothing more but a skewed perception of fairness.
It’s always a great way to dismiss any argument by calling the opposing party stupid.
Let me just remind you, that I was not the one to use a 102 vote player made forum poll, as a basis for my argument.
I don’t think you should call me intellectually dishonest. I think I’m done here.
You are intellectually dishonest, because you are hiding or deflecting from the truth. Maybe my higher level terminology is not properly reflecting the proper emotional response. I could see how that could be offensive.
Lets back up
Statistically speaking, 80% of those people that left eve, are pvers as their primary focus. This is easily established by many examples and evidences.
If we are just talking about the people that left this game, the biggest group of people are pvers. Thus, its insanity to try to appeal to 20% when you get 80%.
So your being dishonest, by saying that this position is not a “concrete one”, because its far far more “concrete” then appealing to 20%, which by the way itself is decreasing.
Where is this 80/20 figure even coming from.
Show me one, just one game, that has a few million players and 80% of the population is pvp AND ONLY PVP, ill drop this and never return to the forums.
Other wise, these points are invalid, and wow, empyrium, and all the other mmos other out there are example of why, you are all wrong.
If you want to consider me arrogant, or ignorant for that, im ok with it and ill take the title and gladly continue on fighting the fight.
however, i am only arrogant, and ignorant if you can prove i am wrong, that there exist million(s) player mmo’s with almost purely a pvp focus.
this is what your trying to advocate for eve.
If your not, then you need to negate from your position and encourage ccp to heal this game by giving high sec to the pve-anti pvp players.
Industry Statistics bro.
On a side note, i was not calling you stupid. I was calling you intellectually dishonest. Stupid is you dont know, Intellectual dishonesty is when you know the truth, and conceal it to validate your position.
Its not different then saying “strawman” or similar forums of debate-related terminology.
So I’m manipulating and dishonest.
Ok, great. I’d prefer to be stupid for sure. What a great turn of events.
Maybe dial down a bit on the personal attacks there buddy. I don’t think I’ve flamed you even once personally. I’ve only questioned the solidity of your arguments.
Maybe keep it civil, if you want people to respond back in a non-trolling manner.
Just for clarification -
I said “successful games”. I’m not talking exclusively to what we would traditionally call an MMO, but games in general. That would include PUBG, DOTA, League, Fortnite, Starcraft, and so on. Games where players are actively engaging and competing against other players.
Also why are you so concerned about who is right? That’s honestly the last thing to be cared about.
Present evidence (as opposed to arguments) to prove me wrong, ll negate my position and apologize for calling you intellectually dishonest, other wise, i can only accept that you are intentionally dodging the evidence, well known to all game designer.s
Im not really to be honest, i just want you guys to admit you wrong for the purpose of going forward.
If i admit defeat, the game stays as it is, even if i am right.
If you admit defeat, we can be honest to each other and find a middle ground; but that is not going to happen as long as you keep saying “there is no proof that pvers will ever help this game, like, omfg” “your a dirty casual”
That gets us no where. I know i am write about this, and interestingly, the changes made by ccp seems to validate this information, since they are making pve-related changes to high sec (war eligibility, neut rep nerfs etc).
Are those changes really hurting the game?