This is how it is and fully want it to stay this way.
Agree but needs Capsuleers to do what they want either gank or defend against.
This can be true about my long term goals and ideas yet I don’t try to steer the ship just try to rock the boat via with what & how I had responded over the few years.
The same trash-tier can be pve focused too, so you and many others want change. Change can be for the good, but what proof is there that splitting the current player base with a new Dawn Server would be the correct answer? Testing such is not open yet to us as there would be a strong delay in delivery of Eve Envolved to it’s current player base.
Be happy with the bucket you had been given and steal the spade to dig with. @Lucas_Kell please before sand is kicked up in a way that there isn’t anyone else to play in the New Eden Sandbox.
With 90% of new players gone within 7 days, and CCP not making a dint in that stat with all the iterations on the NPE over the last 8 years, not only do I agree that players don’t have enough data to know one way or another, I don’t even think CCP have much of an idea either.
They have analysed various metrics and run separate focus group testings; and everything they write or say when they cover retention of new players, aligns with 90% either never logging in, or not logging in again within 7 days of registering.
Exit surveys have low response, about 1% if I recall from CCP’s statements on that, which has been correctly pointed out by those that have argued against some of CCP’s previous analysis that showed ganking isn’t much of a factor for leaving the game. People likely don’t even respond to the survey when they leave.
Do I think ganking of new players has much effect? No, not compared to many other things. Can I prove that? No way.
If anything, ganking contributes to the overall gaming community opinion of the game, and in my opinion, likely more people never even try EVE because of that reputation. Again, just an opinion, however I’m not concerned even if that is true. There are few games that provide the atmosphere/freedom/choices that EVE does; and the removal of any playstyle only serves to reduce the breadth of the game (death by a thousand cuts is a path EVE has been on since 2013).
Some merit there, though to achieve that requires changes that also include pvp.
One example can be via Factions. ie the starting faction from Pilot creation and then while that pilot remains in their Faction controlled space then can not be attacked via same Faction Pilots unless suspect, criminal, killright, wardec or duel. (that would be a reasonable change) but at the same time the Factions are at war so they can and should be attacked by the opposing Faction no mater if signed up for FW or not as it is just as right to pvp in highsec as it is to pve in highsec.
So your vision and how you describe your preference still needs to show a path to achieve that and perhaps the above is something of a stepping stone to achieve. But without the new Dawn server.
Didn’t CCP Games share data that showed that – given a cohort of new pilots that were quickly put into a fleet with other players (experiment), and a cohort that wasn’t (control) – there were positive effects over some near-term / mid-term metrics? Or am I thinking of an old presentation.
In any case such a study is but one data point towards “getting newbs more socially interactive with the game the better” and the overwhelming interaction with other players in this game is via PVP. There simply isn’t enough PVP in high sec anymore these days, leaving ganking the prevalent form that newbies are exposed to.
Simply not true. There is more than enough size of data to draw conclusions. I’m not talking about a handful of noobs, but hundreds. And the great thing is that corp data allows one to know exactly when they joined Eve, joined the corp, and when they last logged into that account. What, exactly, is not clear ?
If anything is nonsense it is you pretending that noobs have masses of alts to confound the issue. You have just invented all those alts and you have zero data to support your claim.
And again you miss the fact that there’s no reason for a noob…if they are still active in other alts…to create an alt that just sits there in a corp and never ever does anything again. They’d remove the alt from the corp and have it active elsewhere…in which case it would not be part of the data. That’s the bit where you show off how little you grasp data analysis, so I don’t need you of all people lecturing me on the subject.
Oh, and if an alt was in the corp purely to spy…it would show as having logged in !
No that’s where you are wrong. Peoples like Lucas have no will to fight. While you and me after being ganked tried to get revenge of the ganker ingame, peoples like Lucas just ragequit and cry how unfair this game is and never put up any ingame effort to fight those evil players who hurt them.
Yet, they spend tons of effort to do it outside of game by crying to the developers and demanding their game to be changed. Not for new players, not for the good of the game, but for their own benefit.
Not only did being ganked early on not make me leave…it actually inspired a sort of Khan type ’ revenge is a dish best served cold’ that motivated me to skill up and get ISK and come back stronger. Of course, a year later the revenge bit is long forgotten as its now all seen in perspective. But being ganked gave me the HTFU that kept me in a game I was starting to get bored of. And here I still am a year later…much to the chagrin of ’ ganking makes noobs leave’ obsessives like Lucas.
The irony is that had I not been ganked I’d have probably left from boredom…the real cause of most noobs leaving.
Of course…Lucas never wants to hear real life examples that challenge his dogma.
Try to chew on that bone a little longer that is in front of you as there is still plenty of meat left for the hungy gankers.
I too will be gnawing on your notion of forced pvp a little longer before I give another reply.
Except this is part of the game they chose to play 
There is no such thing as forced PvP.
You consent to PvP as soon as you undock
Why you always lying
LOL someone doesn’t know how that works. Bruh, you never provide any proof. Why do you expect to be taken seriously?
Oh? So drop one of them then Show us the proof
Realistically, is it any better in other MMOs? I am not saying it isn’t, just wondering if there are any data for this.
I do observe the trend of starting the game and quitting it hours or days after on my NWN1 multiplayer server though. Sure, my server is not roleplay focused - as most NWN1 servers are - but no matter what I did and how much I improved the game and no matter how many “this wil help noobs” advices I implemented, the retention is very small. Majority of the new players quits the moment they are killed by npc for the first time no matter if its in first hour at level 1 or hours later at level 10. And it doesn’t matter that the XP penalties on my server are very low, you can’t lose last level and you don’t lose any items. Some players just quits when they die. I guess they are playing self-imposed ironman mode
CCP Quant presented a “Data Science of EVE” presentation in 2015 (time stamped to correct time):
That showed that the #1 variable determining if a new player is still playing in month 4 (ie. keeps playing after the first 3 months of onboarding), was whether a player had their ship blown up or not.
I don’t know if that is what you are referring to, but I don’t recall anything they’ve presented on a specific experiment (but may have missed that).
I agree. I think CCP Quant also showed that the #1 factor indicating that players will leave the game in the first 3 months is if they do nothing by mine.
Mining in highsec is naturally where a lot of players end up, as it’s an easy to see path to getting some ISK, but it’s so poor at doing that, that they are essentially stuck there and never get hooked on the game.
That’s the true evil of the game. Highsec mining by new players. Biggest killer of retention in my view.
I think you are still recovering, Lucas. I am sorry for your loss. Don’t cry.
Ok White Knight. I don’t believe you. For some reason this issue seems to get right to the core of your being.
All of us can see through your facade, man.
Thank you for conceding
LOL and maybe they could take some accountability and learn how to use F10/Google to avoid the gank
You see everyone, this is what he wants back. Don’t get it twisted. They always tell on themselves in the end
Yeah you are right. The #1 correlation with leaving was not being blown up by another player and doing no mining.
Doing mining without being blown up, was next. That is from the data, not from his words. I should have watched it all through again.
Sigh, its too late bro. You already told on yourself.
We all know you ain’t for the nubs. You griefed a nub on this very forum.
Yes, I think it’s way too complex an issue to reduce to even a small set of causes. So it isn’t like “get killed = stay with the game”.
It would be just as valid to suggest that people come looking for EVE to be a certain game and when they get killed, that’s the first moment that they see it is like that; and then stay.
There would be many more potential causes also, and overall I don’t think there is much value in trying to claim one or another is more important.
The correlation provides actionable information, but still CCP seem to get the NPE wrong time and time again.
Not the raw data. No.
It does apply to everyone, for the simple reason that if I can be ganked and still be in the game a year later…anyone can. Even a single case is all the evidence one needs that the problem lies not in the game but in the players. And there is not simply a single case…there are thousands who’ve been ganked as noobs and are still playing.
If you make the game easier for those who simply can’t cope and should probably never have signed up in the first place, then you cheapen the experience of those who survived. And that is not conducive to keeping them in the game…oh you who pretend to care so much about people being kept in the game.
No, that would be you…who consistently show that you simply haven’t a clue what really motivates people.