It was so savage, in fact, that they had to kill the game by giving it a PvE server.
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Sadly, the deluded so-called 'PvPâers still try to convince themselves of this nonsense, despite repeated postings and explanations by the people who had the actual numbers of UO at their fingertips.
Ah well, I guess when you base your self-image on your ability to kill people who donât want to/arenât equipped to fight, you need to ignore the facts and just endlessly repeat the same drivel over and over again. It must take a lot of effort to stay in the griefer community.
In EVE, as in virtually all other MMOs, the most ISK is earned / progress made by those who focus on ways to be productive and avoid wasting their energies on PvP. Non-consensual PvP is more about growing your e-peen within a small crowd of social misfits.
Actual UO primary dev Raph Koster (as opposed to the nonsense in the previous post):
âEventually, the team, by then absent Koster, implemented Trammel, effectively creating mirror worlds safe from player-killers. âI wouldnât have done it, personally, but there is no question that the userbase doubled once this went in,â he says.â
âThe result [of UOâs PK environment] was an exodus driven not only by the more modern 3-D graphics of [EverQuest] but by the safety. Everything I had thought about the impossible admin load of having a PK switch with a large-scale game was disproven in short order, and players wasted no time in telling me bluntly that I had been drastically and painfully wrong. In the name of player freedoms, I had put them through the slow-drip torture of two years of experiments with slowly tightening behavior rules, trying to save the emergence while tamping down the bad behavior. The cost was the loss of many hundreds of thousands of players. Ultima Online had churned through more than twice as many players who quit than EverQuest even got as subscribers that year.â
For people who prefer fact over delusion, the source material is here:
I disagree, it is the essence of the sandbox that there are LOTS of ways to play, not one end goal that we all shoot for.
Ah but I am more likely to say, well that is YOUR goal. Have fun storming the castle. and wave.
This I do on a regular basis so I can make the lesson vids and give constructive feedback to the devs when I talk to them.
m
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Too bad you wonât be running for CSM again. Iâm sorry I didnât start playing EVE sooner ( couldnât, was still on duty, no time ) and âmeetâ you in game sooner. You sound like just the type of guy that players need to represent them, I wasnât there to witness your good works and thatâs too bad.
Take good care, dear.
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Running into a town and taking on maybe 8 people at once, singling out one and running around getting hits with a pitchfork while everyone is try to kill me took a lot more skill than anything in Eve XD Everyone tried to kill me everywhere.
I rode about on a huge beetle with a pitchfork. It was hilarious. I liked raiding towns and using the bank as a stop gap when hp got low.
In Eve terms this is equivalent to going into sov space and taking on a fleet, kiting about 8 players (well equipped not helpless) then docking at a station to repair, and undocking for more with them waiting outside and eventually managing to warp away after a few kills When it got too tough (when about 20 or more people are trying to kill me)
Rarely were the players hanging by the banks ever unequipped to fight. Quite the contrary. I didnât bother killing people in the open world
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There is reason ccp used the motto âBuild your dreams, wreck theirsâ in their advertising of EvE.
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PvP is the engine that drives EvE. Whether or not an individual thinks they are not directly engaging in PvP (they are in one form or another) , PvP is what is supporting the game world they are playing in. Example; Why is anybody buying mined stuff? To build things, ships and stuff⌠Why is there a demand for ships? Not from PvE. Even with all ammo used, there are not enough ships lost in PvE to keep the forgres running. Why is anybody buying the stuff found by explorers? Why is anybody buying PI products? Everything depends on the cycle of destruction and production, not just production, sorry.
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Isk is a means to an end, not the end goal itself. I submit that fun is the goal and there are many different ways to that. Simply âstacking Latinumâ for the sake of watching a number in a virtual wallet go up doesnât seem very entertaining to me - but if thatâs what youâre intoâŚw/e I suppose⌠âProgressââŚyeahâŚsurely you know EvE is a non-linear game so âprogressâ levels and such might not be quite as important a thing as in some other games⌠If someone is having fun in a game then what they are doing is productive and certainly not âwasting their energiesâ whether what they are doing is flinging a hero-tackle frigate into certain destruction, hunting the others, or mining veldspar in a velator - if theyâre having fun theyâre doing it right.
Everything we do in EvE is stoking the PvP furnace that makes EvE, Kezrai. Everything. Just being in this game world supports it, You enable PvP, you psycho. 
Leaving aside the âsocial misfitsâ part, thatâs just one possible motivation for some folks. Some do it for profit, some for the interesting salt patterns, some to mess with their economic rivals and/or create demand for their own products. Seems like you are kinda limiting yourself there.
LOL thatâs great! 
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One problem is that the Career Agents and other signposts push new players to low-isk garbage activities like highsec mining and low level agent missions.
There are far, far better ways of earning isk than those, such as combat anomalies (and their resulting escalations).
Until the devs wake up and fix their god awful signposting in the early game, new players will continue to be led down the path of crap isk, frustration and eventual quitting of the game.
Itâs interesting to see all of the âpeaceful industrialistsâ complaining about violence as a sin, yet having no problems with killing a man by taking away his livelihood through control of the means of production. Kind of like how in real life you go to jail for punching someone in the face, but if you merely cause them to get fired and starve to death after whispering some gossip into the bossâs ear, you will get a promotion.
In the old days, society used to execute for this. Now itâs actually encouraged, and we have entire generations full of people claiming victimhood as they eat from plates with four different kinds of meat on them, while the haves-not are branded as misfits for refusing to participate in a pyramid scheme thatâs bleeding our world dry. âFreedom fightersâ would of course be a more accurate label, but using it doesnât have the desired effect of detracting others from justly perceiving you as a gluttonous bourgie.
Sic semper tyrannis.
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While I agree about the terrible career agents, anoms etc are only worthwhile because only a select number of people do them. If more people who do them the market would be flooded with the loot drops lowering the value possibly to a point where it messes with similar modules, be they produced or dropped.
I still help individuals getting into anoms and combat sigs but thatâs on a per person basis.
I only got 1 main 
Extra SP? No such thing. There is only SP earned thru time or money which still takes time
ISK is a powerful force. Learning the gamall vegur to keep your ISK is part of EVE.
UO? Youâre talking to a 96 and onward UO vet here. My UO experience is clearly telling me that the OP is full of fail and does indeed need to git gud.
Cov ops are for pure expo. Astero is for when you wanna expo and blap other expo ships.
Sadly the carebears murdered the game. It truly is a warning for EVE with what happened to UO.
Great Lakes here Preach it sister. Preach it. These peeps donât know nothing about magic trapped boxes with robes in your inventory to hide your stuff from thieves
Preach. Trammel was the death of the game I loved. It was a very sad day.
When UO implemented trammel, they murdered what made the game good. Losses meant something. Victories meant something. Its why EVE still evokes strong reactions because losses can actually mean something.
Once you left town, keeping yourself alive became your responsiblity. Nothing beat being in a dungeon and running into peeps and thinking, welp is it time to throw down or are they cool? Best friends and bitter enemies alike were both made and it was great.
Again you are wrong. You consent to PvP the minute you undock. Learn to EVE kthx.
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These people never understand what we mean when we say âkilled the gameâ because they see everything in absolute terms, and not from any artistic/abstract perspective. Many players game good, few players game bad. Thatâs it.
Taking that logic hand in hand with the argument that anyone acting like a âmisfitâ in the game (e.g. shooting players who donât want to be shot) is an incel, we arrive to the conclusion that these people find it perfectly adequate to shag a corpse, as long as they get to add another notch to their bedpost, and the corpse is popular enough that the line to shag it stretches around the block.
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True that. I mean did I have a room in my house in UO dedicated to the body parts of my slain enemies. Well, yea
I also didnât murder many people. Well, not enough to go red anyways I was always very careful. Well I went red once at Kazâs but that wasnât my fault honestly.
âI slipped and the dagger just accidently stuck himâ
âFour times?â
âUhâŚyeahâŚâ
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What had happened was an agreed upon duel but the dude didnât go grey and he sucked at PVP, then a MA>poison>expo>e-bolt>hally hit later he was dead and I was red.
Then I had to sling a lot of potions and throw a lot of EVs to get the hell out of dodge as everyone turned on me 
Good times, good times.
Why not try to play in singularity or play with alpha account?
Iâm tired, and all I need is relaxation.
Explore the game your self, do stupid thing, grind to your goal. If you canât do that just buy plex. Also youtube video how to make isk on abyss are stupid, they just want views for their irl ad income.
Well, hell.
Here I am again, lots of answers.
<3
o7
So, I tried couple of things and got to the conclusion that this game is nothing more then old players haven. But hey, that is the game and I am OK with it.
I see common thing in some of the answers- âisk is not anything but means to the goal, it is not goal itselfâ, well you obviously play some other game then me.
Especially when you yourself are using ISK to defeat other players, mainly new ones, you silly industrial Gods.
So, I adopted my strategy- if I cant make ISK, neither will you.
WHY
It started as a butt hurt moment after I got killed, again, by someone I could not do anything to. More to the point the guy called me an idi.t, that I should âgit gutâ and that I should go and play minecraft. Ah, really?
And all of that just because I asked him how he uncloaked my ship, which I previously wasnât aware you can even do that
To all and everyone that will jump on âread, watch, learnâ band wagon- no, I will not lose any of my time(more then I already did) doing that- it is pointless.
I stopped reading about the game and cant care less about any and all of âstrategiesâ or âhow-toâ guides. They are all made by long term players that have the mechanics of the game in their brain and do not relate to me or other new players.
To prove that it was not hard at all, since someone said it in posts above that they regularly make fresh accounts that they do not Plex or give ISK to.
âAnd yetâ they are doing not just fine- but they are doing greatâŚ<âthat there is, so called, âold player heavenâ.
You see, when people lose their millions in real life, they get back up very fast, since they did not lose their skills and knowledge- they did not lose the phone numbers either. So all they have to do, is to follow the steps already taken. Not very much helpful for new guy.
And to me and every other new player, this game has a knowledge fee so large- that I am not willing to pay it.
In real world terms it is just if I, when talking to a new guy at work, tell him/her that the job is âeasyâ and you should âknow this stuff alreadyâ, after all there are countless books, articles and stuff online you could read, watch or attend to.
Hell yes, from my perspective the job is so easy I regularly finish my job before time and then just sit around till the work hours go bye bye. See? It is easy. But is it tho? Easy? Really? Well, again- for me it is, so it must be.
Stupidity and ignorance in that logic is quite high.
Back To The Point.
WHAT
If I cant make ISK, neither will you.
HOW
One of the things I did is this:
Plutonium Charge S
That right there was 1,23 to buy and 27 to sell.
Well, after me playing with the buy and sell orders, very predictably, old Gard started to lose their sh.t and got, well, scared I suppose.
Today, the price to sell is 19,36 and to buy is 12,98 and it is holding that way even couple of days after my last input.
What I did there, in just couple of movements in couple of days, is that I helped new players MORE then any of you elitist here calling me incapable or ânot willing to learnâ. How? By making it possible for them to buy for less and to sell for higher amount.
Expect more of this. It will be my main source of fun in game. You are welcome.
And thing is, I do not have to have millions of isk. To start all I need is two free trading slots and initial isk for small numbers of items.
There is no risk for me losing ANY money- if people read this post and choose not to react- all that will happen is that I will be the only one buying and only one selling that product. Checkmate.
I Can Not Lose.
I Do Not Have To âLearnâ Skills For Decades.
I Do Not Have To Pay For Omega.
I Do Not Have To Play The Game, Even.
I Cant Be Killed By Anyone.
I Can Watch The Trade And Industry Burn.
And i did not had to read anything to come out with this idea.
Funny how easy it is when you âuse your brainâ or âgit gutâ, no?
AnywayâŚ
So what I did is I âlearnedâ skills needed for trading stuff and viola- at the moment I have 53, more to come, I made some runs of data and relic sites, did some trading( got killed by someone again, lol) and my âfun planâ is in moving.
I guess, it will not hurt many players, if anyone, to raise the buying price and lower the selling ones, right?
After all, you have so much knowledge of the game, so much experience, so much isk- you can afford to buy high and sell low, right?
And all I have to do is to come to the game once every so-so and put new orders in.
Yes?
Git Gut, Mothertruckers.
Ps- I love you all, so much.
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I think youâre finally starting to âgetâ it.
It wonât. As a single player, your impact on the economy is very small even if you were working with 12 figures in your wallet. But as an individual player, you can make considerable wealth for yourself individually, which will open up various opportunities to screw around with older players if you choose to do that (e.g. hire mercenaries on a group you dislike and have them hunted for extended periods of time).
Youâll have to look outside of the T1 ammo market for this, however, as old players donât commonly deal with such low-end goods. Chances are youâre currently competing with fairly new players.
I have a hard time believing that players from Pandemic Horde, known for recruiting and training new players, would say anything of this sort. Got any proof? Chat logs?
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Lol, not really, but I suppose you mean it sarcastic âŚ
