Anyhow, what we do to get rid of competition might seem weird to you, but it’s what’s most effective.
You roll the highest yield setup you can, you mine exactly the roids he mines, switching continuously if necessary, mining them faster than he can.
People HATE that! It fucks with their alarms!
For your own safety, all you need to do is fitting higs rigs (bonus points for spider webbing the fleet) and slowly chucking through the belt at align time! My lowest was 8 msec!
Yeah between bumping them off the field on an alt and then doing mining the same rocks as their drones with covetors/hulks I’m planning on making getting anything from me too much of a chore to justify managing 6 active orca clients.
As you should be able to tell I’m all in with an active mitigation process
I knew I read CCPs official stance on moon ownership and I finally found the reference, so we can end this thread.
TL:DR. As the owner of the refinery, you have the advantage of knowing when the moon chunk is detonated. If you want to profit from all the ore yourself, you are supposed to mine it as quickly as you can. However, no one can claim ownership of a moon.
King of the forums? Are you serious? Why are miners always so toxic?
I merely REFERENCED the ACTUAL POST where CCP made a statement on moon ownership.
Unless that stance has changed, then I would not see any changes to access lists or suspect flags, since both these mechanics would require ownership of the asteroids produced by moon chunk detonation.
Anyone can claim ownership of a moon, or anything else. A claim is just a declaration that something belongs to you. I claim the computer I am typing this on, but there is no universal force that will deter someone from making the same claim, or deter them from taking the computer by force, if they want.
Objects in Eve differ somewhat from real life objects because they can be owned explicitly. What stops you from scooping the MTU someone else launched? The owner attribute of the MTU that is explicit.
Asteroids have no owner attribute, so what CCP Fozzie said is absolutely true. Asteroids are never, that is to say under no circumstance that can occur in game, owned explicitly. It does not prohibit them from changing that in the future. Such a forward thinking stance would be phrased “Asteroids will never be explicitly owned.”
Ownership can still be implied. I paid for this computer, so the implication is that I own it. Someone paid the fuel cost and purchased the equipment to bring up a chunk of moon ore, which I feel also implies (but does not guarantee) ownership.
People can choose to respect that, or not. If an enemy also claims to own the moon ore, brings ships to ‘your’ moon mining op, bumps you off them while mining up everything, then, as they say, possession is 9/10 of ownership.
I think we are talking about different things. You are talking about ownership in a meta sense, while stuff like access lists and suspect flags are game mechanics supporting ownership.
In the context of game mechanics, CCP has stated that they do not consider ownership of moons and asteroids to be a thing. So as long as CCP has this stance, we cannot talk about moon mining thieves, since no one had ownership of those asteroids in the first place.
Either one needs to quickly mine the moons to get the loot (once the loot is in your cargo, the game mechanics support ownership of that loot) or you need to fight and control your system.
very likely … as you and many others who anchored moon miners and gave no thought or planning to deal with competition , now want ccp to protect “their” ore by suspect flagging miners …
I think what I’m driving at is “Don’t be surprised if things change.”
I would never have expected that players could be in their own un-wardeccable corporations a year ago, and it was a pretty firm stance that having your own meant you were ready to play ball, but things changed.
I interpret CCP Fozzie’s post as a reference to the way things stand at present, but not as a declaration of philosophy or future policy. Thus I think it’s a point of view that can change.
I don’t know that it will change, and I don’t feel qualified to have an opinion myself either way, but I don’t want people to pass up voicing their opinions on the subject because they thought CCP had a firm position when I don’t think that it does.
In 2 of my posts, I’ve explicitly stated “as long as CCP has this stance”. So I don’t understand , where I’ve given any clues that I don’t consider the possibility of this to change.
However, some of the people in here seem to be under the impression that this WILL change, without any evidence from CCP that they have indeed changed their stance.
I argue from a realistic and current point of view. The current evidence shows that CCP have already made their statement on this issue, which basically boils down to mine faster or control your system.
I would be surprised. Well surprised if they made it criminal to mine moon chunks from another’s harvester.
It’s possible some changes are made so the owner of the havester does not completely lose out. My suggestion earlier in this thread was to have a small bit respawn every day. So at least there is a chance for more people including the owner of the harvester to get some ore. But I do mean small amount each day at reset, just like the rest of the asteroids.
I have been surprised before, and what makes the future murky for me is that I don’t really see it as a question of moon rock safety for the miner, but rather a question of who will be the type of player to threaten the miner.
If mining asteroids without permission remains ‘safe’ and without penalty, the abusers will be people looking to poach ore because they think there is nothing you can do to them. Brainless robots or their kin will loot what they can and disappear into the ether.
If they go the suspect timer route, then it becomes a type of suspect baiting where someone looking for a fight is trying to get a miner to aggress for the limited engagement timer. This type of interaction may appeal to some pilots more if they’re not keen on mining for ore so much as provoking a response.
I am still of the mind that CCP has taken no stance on this issue, and only bothered to outline the current situation we can all observe for ourselves today as a response to being asked about the then unimplemented feature. Having it work exactly the same way as mining generally does is the least effort implementation, and the most likely result of work done with no stance in mind. I see no indication of what gameplay CCP would ultimately favor, nor do I know what kind of gameplay the community would favor. I am considering both outcomes when I do my personal planning for the time being, though there is so much ore out there I’m not sure how much it actually matters either way.
I do not think that the spectrum breaker causes you to be flagged.
You can test it by firing it off with green safety set. So long as you have your safety set to green, you should be unable to trigger a crimewatch flag (either suspect yellow or criminal red). Setting your safety to yellow allows you to commit a suspect offense, but will prevent you from being flagged red. Setting your safety red allows you to do things that give you a criminal flag and summon CONCORD to destroy your ship. If you can’t activate the spectrum breaker with green safety, it’ll give you a flag.
I think, though, that the spectrum breaker only breaks locks for ships targeting the ship with the module. Unless you can equip all the asteroids with a spectrum breaker, then, this won’t be effective at discouraging people from mining.
There are ECM bursts that will try to jam all target locks in an area, but hitting a player with that is a criminal act, and will get your ship destroyed by CONCORD.
Your counterplay options are ganking, bumping, and targetting the enemy’s known associates.
The latter is often effective if you have good intel on them. Maybe they run an incursion fleet, and you can get a spy (disloyal logi) into it, warp out at the wrong time, and then send an EVEmail to everyone that lost a ship saying “This was retalliation against (enemy). Your ships were destroyed because of their actions.”
My lowest was 8 msec!