HS moon mining thieves

(Sade Musana) #102

Fantastic, no need to entirely change game mechanics for a short term problem then, get recruiting!

(Abyrr Lemmont) #103

I’d challenge you that you have played high sec much at all.

(Qia Kare) #104

I have some empathy for your frustrations, but try not to get mired in a forum debate that won’t help you solve your problem. Solicit solutions, and don’t engage with people who aren’t going to help you find them.

(Maekchu) #105

A single Athanor is sufficient to get some recruitment going. Anyway, so you admit you put up all those Athanors for recruitment purposes and are not able yourself to mine them all? Then I suppose, there is no harm in random 3th party to profit from them as long as your corp only has 2 people…

Everything works as intended.

Honestly, I don’t see your issue.

(Abyrr Lemmont) #106

We’ll still have thieves and I’ll still want to shoot them.

The high sec moon mining game is only halfways correct and is entirely skewed against those making the investments to create the content.

The more I read the responses here the more I’m convinced that eve is a game that entirely rewards theft and obfuscation and deceit. There’s no reward for a high sec moon ore creator. Oh unless you have a dozen orcas of your own.

(Abyrr Lemmont) #107

Yeah these people are just trolls lol

(Maekchu) #108

Oh no… Someone disagrees with my opinion… They must be a troll then!

(Sade Musana) #109

Maybe it’s just good game design, where 1 man corps can’t lay claim to all the moons in Hi-Sec.

(Abyrr Lemmont) #110

You’re not really listening to what I’m indicating the problem is.

I framed it 100 posts ago. I wanted a solution to someone showing up with 6 orcas and mining out my field in 2 hours.

You all proceeded to throw all matter of bad manner saying I’m among other things, a fraud and out of line. I’m neither of that. I’m saying why not make this interesting? It’s high sec right? An athanor should exert some element of control over the ore that it spawns. What’s wrong with requiring a thief to flag yellow in high sec so I can do something about it? Used to be I could war dec them not anymore. Or that they’d have to hide in an NPC corp and pay the taxes. Nope they get out of that now too.

High sec moons should have something that levels a playing field. If the answer is go to low sec then I guess I can make plans to do just that.

(Abyrr Lemmont) #111

I still have to fuel the stations dude.

(Maekchu) #112

I have said none of the sorts. In fact, I’ve mostly only parroted CCP’s stance on the issue. You are the one calling me a troll for disagreeing with you.

This is probably the root to the discussion and your main misconception. Your opinion is that the Athanor should project control over spawned asteroids, while CCP already have stated that one cannot own moons or asteroids spawned from them. As long as CCP has this stance on ownership, one cannot have game mechanics like access lists or suspect flags, since it requires an initial ownership of said asteroids.

As the owner of the Athenor, you have the advantage of controlling the detonation timer. With that advantage, you should be able to know exactly when asteroids are spawned and when exactly to move in and mine it all. Obviously, this will be hard with 5 Athanors and 2 characters, which was why I mentioned scaling issues.

(Abyrr Lemmont) #113

Yes I apologize for lumping you and Sade in the same troll category. I’ll give you that respect and retract that directed towards you. No Hard feelings there. I becomes hard to carry a conversation when people discredit by misinformation while carrying the exact foul that which they’re accusing others. He’s been trolling everyone with good thoughts in this thread.

And I’m saying it should be adjusted to be more of a penalty in high sec. obviously I can be war decced and thus carry literally all of the risk in this situation. I took a risk of making these investments to create mining content for a new Corp that I’m forming and recruiting for. Being that it’s eve, I feel that in the nature of the game I should be allowed to defend the ore field I created. And yes I feel ownership is the correct observation. I lay claim to the only spot on the moon that which a moon chunk can be brought. I fuel the station for many weeks and create an extraction event thru gameplay mechanics that only I control - not an npc random spawn. I then after doing all these things witness an afk orca bot proceed to clear the field! Frustrating is putting it mildly. No I’m more and more convinced that this mechanic is entirely ill convinced and not functioning as what would be expected in high sec.

That said, im determined to make the best of it.

After the first few posts I have my omen bumpers fitted. I have made plenty of friends in the system. Am joining alliance with another Indy group in system. And will begin recruiting this month.

(Maekchu) #114

But there is no logical argument for that. Again, since you don’t own the asteroids, they are free for all.

As the owner of the Athanor, you have full control of when to detonate moon chunks and spawn asteroids. So you have the advantage of knowing exactly when to start mining. This means, in order to profit from all the asteroids yourself, you need to be able to quickly mine the field before any competition arrives.

You hold all the risk, cause of this control. You have given yourself this advantage by putting down an Athanor. But honestly if we talk about risk, your case is a prime example of little risk to the Athanor owner. You hold 5 structures without the ability to protect them and no one have come to blow them up yet.

If one comes to terms with not owning the asteroids, then the system makes sense. That is obviously not to say, that it cannot change in the future. However, as of now, one has to operate based on CCPs official statements on the issue.

Good to hear you are joining forces with other players. Should enable you to mine your belts faster than your competition, which is what the original idea has been. Friendship is still the best ship.

(Abyrr Lemmont) #115

See that’s the fundamental issue: someone making these investments will always see them as their own fields. Free to do with what they so choose, mine them out on my timeline; sell the rights to mine; etc. I fundamentally disagree that these rocks carry no ownership claim - in high sec only. And the persistence of posts similar to this one highlights the fact that this ownership feeling is consistent among high sec moon mining operators.

The risk to me is you war dec me and wipe me off the moon and claim it for yourself. The POCOs owners have already done that thru most of high sec. how is an athanor kicking up rocks different than the way a poco owner taxes the everliving daylights out of Pi in high sec?

People place way too much value to the controlling of the detonation timing than what’s observed in practice. That’s literally a non starter. That’s how I know people don’t play this game in high sec. the theif knows the moons and has them timed out. They know where to be and when. The only thing I can do on timing is stop the extraction and reset it for something else. Or stop it altogether.

(Abyrr Lemmont) #116

My last words on this are I won’t be happy entirely until there’s more of a risk to a thief. If I’m able to have some element of control over MY ore fields that creates PvP content to boot then it’s a win win. Levels the playing field in high sec.

If people want to exploit a field that’s being neglected that should be a low sec event.

If I can be war decced a theif should be open to something too. It’s called being more fair and balanced with the risk reward calculus.

(Leah Crowleymass) #117

I believe that they did this to expand some of the options for players. This move gives people who do not want to leave HS some opportunity to get some of these materials that they would not have otherwise, promote the building of citadels to players who might otherwise not have built them, and give people a taste of some elements of the game that they might not otherwise have experienced.

I think that’s actually one of the reasons that this was done. The way it is now is actually kind of similar to other elements of the game in how they progress in risk vs. reward from HS -> LS -> NS/WH. I think part of the intention was actually to generate the kind of dilemma you are experiencing right now- Do I live with the higher safety but lower reward of doing this in HS or do I venture out into LS and have a different set of rules (and options and risks) in exchange for greater reward?

For example, (and I am NOT trying to be snarky or obnoxious when I ask this), why did you choose to put your stations up in HS instead of LS? Would you consider moving or expanding to other stations in LS so your recruits have something of a career path on the risk/reward spectrum? Again, serious question, not trying to be a jerk.

So, you get a dozen Orca pilots to outline the thieves.

I think that is a correct statement, but maybe not the way you meant it. You ARE in HS and there ARE additional structures and rules, but not all of them are in your favor. You are protected by Concord (pro), but so are the thieves (con). That’s a balance that works in both directions. There are options for you (out mine them, bump them, hire suicide mercs, etc.), but adding the protection of HS to the reward of LS/NS is not good for the game. That will result in less destruction and more materials that, ultimately, will tank your profits and the industrial economy in a much broader way.

Again, this is just my take on things (as somebody who has considered dropping a HS refinery and am still on the fence about it), but I do believe that all of these elements are fundamentally part of the design and the way they rolled this out. I do understand your frustration, but I think that is an intentional effect of what CCP did here for the reasons I mention above.

(Abyrr Lemmont) #118

I get all that but again the rules skew towards a theif and agaisnt a station owner.

The net result is I don’t feel compelled to put all this effort in and only to see it literally taken before my eyes with very little effective recourse.

So given that’s the player feeling as a result of the structure of high sec and the war dec change that just went thru, I’m not certain it’s really as effective as you make it seem.

I’m advocating for a reversal of the war dec change so I can shoot them. I’m asking for PvP flags to create that situation. There should be a risk reward calculus for the thief, too.

Yeah everyway that I try to think of this it’s just robin hood in high sec. there’s the suicide ganking that persists, the moon ore thievery, the fallacy of security is just that. Anyways thanks for the debate those with meaningful contributions. I hear what you’re saying and see that side of the arguments. Just fundamentally don’t see how it fits with a high security space. That’s all.

(Sade Musana) #119

New Bro btw?

You left IRO Mining Corporation the same day PIRAT wardecced you, yet we have all these Lemmont characters still in IRO? Coincidence?


I hope you aren’t using the ‘new player’ card here while possessing 2016 characters ^.^

(Abyrr Lemmont) #120

Dude you’re so out of line. Yeah the game populates Lemmont for you randomly which I took as “sure why not”.

I know you’re trying to be all shirlock Holmes here but sorry completely wrong.

More tinfoil from Sade on a forum troll account!!

This guy is toxic and bad for a community.

(Sade Musana) #121

Just a coincidence 20% of your main corp is named after you, yes yes, and you didn’t make a holding corp to avoid a wardec for your structures :wink:

New bro btw.