I believe Warp To Zero destroyed Eve (We should allow indterdictor SHIPS to operate in low-sec)

For those of you who don’t know, Warp-To-Zero was not always a thing in Eve. It used to be that the closest you could warp to things was 15km.

Then people figured out how to create a bookmark ‘past’ or ‘beyond’ a gateway or station, and warp to that bookmark and ‘land on’ the station or gate, an ‘insta.’ Instas for stations are still made in some places.

This lead to people creating bookmarks and selling them. Corporations and alliances would create large portfolios of bookmarks and give them to their members. Which meant a lot of copying, and the way that bookmarks were copied and maintained back then, it was causing huge problems for CCP’s servers.

I’m sad to say, I’m one of the people who advocated for “Warp-To-Zero” back in the day, if the old forums were around, my post would be there.

So, CCP deleted all the book marks with-in 100km of a gate (and maybe of stations?) and gave the players “Warp-To-Zero!” Which seemed like a great idea at the time.

By allowing everyone to instantly get from gate to gate, it made travel so much easier, and (as I’ve mentioned in other posts) all the low-sec pirates dried up.

There used to be pirates in low-sec that would ransom you. They had reputations. You would get warp-scrambled and webbed, and they’d give you a certain amount of time to pay them or be destroyed. You could get on your corp chat, be it a newbie-corp or player-corp, and ask, “Can I trust this [Pirate]?” and people would tell you, “Yeah, you can pay him.” or “No, don’t pay that one, they’ll blow you up no matter what.” or “I don’t know.” - They had reputations, and there were player-pirates that prided themselves on their reputations.

With warp to zero, now low-sec was much safer. You had to catch ships coming out of a gate, instead of approaching it. Things got more difficult for the pirates, and the hunters in general. That 15km to the gate forced a fight. Now you had to be fast on the lock, and fast moving, to have a chance.

CCP added in warp disruption bubbles, which helped in null-sec, but this left low-sec still a land for people with quick reflexes. Character skills were important to get the fast lock, but you also had to have fast fingers for your keyboard and mouse.

It wasn’t just the gates though, players were and are able to warp to stations at zero as well. This changed things for the miners. In the old days, if you were mining, and nuets or hostiles showed up in system, you couldn’t warp to a station and dock up or tether, because you’d only get 15km away and they could still attack you. Of course the stations in high-sec and low-sec had guns, in null-sec not so much.

While those 15km were inconvenient, in a lot of way… It created a battle-zone outside of every gate, every station. If you wanted to travel, you had to cover that 15km at each gate. Travelling was more difficult in many ways. But, this created a more vibrant, and alive community. Because, if you were going to travel, you traveled in groups… Or you really faced the consequences.

Sure, sure, travelling alone you can still get caught and die… recently I lost over 700 mil travelling alone, without a scout, because I was tired (it was ‘one last trip before bed’) and lazy (I didn’t use an interceptor to travel in), and apathetic (‘If I lose it, I really don’t care [that much]’). Losing that ship hurt my pride more than anything else, and I got over it in a couple of days.

There used to be gate camps all over the place, because if you traveled, you had to cross that 15km. Oh sure, you could fly an interceptor and burn for the gate… and, you’d make it, most of the time.

I have a strong feeling that if CCP made it so you couldn’t ‘land’ any closer than 15km from anything, with or without bookmarks… not only would the Eve community freak out, and have a fit over it, but that after the chaos, and the un-subs which CCP can’t afford, the game would be better for it. The people who played would ultimately enjoy it more… and, if it were able to survive all the un-subs, it would probably attract more players and be a larger stronger community for it. - But, I doubt CCP could survive the un-subs from such an action, so I’m not advising it. Though, I do miss it.

I don’t think ships would be as cheap as they are, ISK would be deflate as it is, etc. If the game had kept and forced the 15km warp-to range as the closest a ship could get. I believe the ransom-pirates would have remained. High-sec gankers might not have become as big of a thing as they are, and Eve would be more fun. Sure, sure, you reading this might think, “It’d be less fun if it took me longer to get around.” - But imagine all the content.

Yeah, freighter pilots would need escorts. The costs of everything would go up. But… if a ship costs more, then you’d get paid more for selling it wouldn’t you? The risk would be higher, but so would the rewards.

Below is an example of some low-sec pirates ransoming a guy:
(Video is at 14:40)

So, not only could you ask in corp, but there was a channel dedicated to it (no surprise really…)

Here’s a discussion about piracy being dead…

And more reading materials:
https://forums-archive.eveonline.com/message/942195

Do a search for the word, “Pirate” and/or “Ransom” in here:
http://www.eve-academy.eu/kainscionofbalance/JobGuide.html

The Eve Compendium v1.5


[Eve Online] Guide to Piracy 2.1


Another pirate hunter like me (when there were pirates to hunt)!
https://eve-search.com/thread/894994-0

These are videos of me auto-piloting through low-sec on the day of this post.
THESE VIDEOS ARE BORING: I RECOMMEND SKIPPING AHEAD.

Pirates in low-sec means pirate hunters in low-sec, means content!

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I have a strong feeling you’re wrong.

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Perhaps in this time of chaos CCP could allow Interdictor Ship bubbles, and Heavy Interdictors to activate their bubbles, in low sec.

One can’t anchor a bubble in low-sec… but why not allow a ship to launch one and take the gate guns for it?

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It would just reintroduce bookmark spam.

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I have a strong feeling you’re right.

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Something that everyone on the forums suggesting really stupid changes and saying “bUt ThE cHaOs eRa!”

Chaos does not mean bad ideas.

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Interdiction probes in LowSec isn’t really a bad idea, and it’s probably a net neutral, since we already have people who can instalock and scream/web out to 20km and beat the gate guns anyway with cheesing the aggression mechanics or just straight tanking them.

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Not if the game didn’t allow you to land closer than 15km from something.

If (LandingRange < 15km)
{
LandingRange =15km
};

But as I’ve said, its to ingrained to change it now. But the bubbles! That might work.

You’re right. Your post is spot on and well written.

WTZ changed the mindset of every new player. Their game was vastly different than the game of those before them. They’ve learned that you don’t necessarily require an escort, meaning they were not anymore forced to join a group. They’ve learned that there is no potential danger potentially waiting for them at the gate.

Though I don’t think that keeping WT15 and banning and preventing these bookmakrs from being made would have worked well for a growing society. The survival pressure would likely have lead to a situation where a few megacorporations dominate literally everything.

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Yes, and those people are prepared and competent. Allowing Bubbles makes this gameplay of competence go away and replace it with dull bubble camps from null sec. No thanks.

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Well, looking back (with hind sight 20/20), I would have made it so that bookmarks closer than 15km would be worthless as you’d always land 15km away at closest.

Players won’t be able to anchor bubbles, still. It would have to be either HICs sitting near the gates (and getting gate gunned… which admittedly are weak, especially against something like a HIC) or an interdictor, which could get hurt by gate guns, and stuck in their own bubble(s) would have to take damage while getting out of them, or find some other way to deal with them.

Also, the criminal mechanic should be reworked as well IMO. Which is both a separate issue, and one related to this.

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That’s virtually not different. A hictor can tank gate guns easily and dictors can be tanked to withstand gate guns as well. Ever heard of logis? They existed in the times of Ascendant as well.

Sure, but now you’re talking about coordination! Possibly teamwork! :smiley:

And that HIC sitting on the gate, tanking those guns, is a target for any roaming fleet that comes through. As well as the logi ships that support it.

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One of the draws of lowsec is that it lacks bubbles. One of the biggest downsides of nullsec is bubbles.

Source: Some common sense about the decision-making process regarding ones preffered type of space, mixed with my own dislike of the bubble mechanics. Lowseccers could easily play in null or WH space, if they wanted, but they don’t want to. Bubbles are a huge part of the decision making process, naturally, because they’re one of the major differences between null/WH and every other space.

Or, in other words: ■■■■ off with your shitty bubbles. : - )

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The coordination and teamwork already exists with the current mechanics and is arguably more important now than if bubbles were enabled. Bubbles remove that because bubbles never fail.

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Don’t waste your sweat on it.
It’s never going to happen.

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“Prepared and competent”.

Your standards are pretty low huh?

I would not be so sure about that. Enabling bubbles in low sec has been a popular demand from people. And as we all know CCP is still working down their list of “popular demands from the last 10 years”.

Anchored bubbles may never fail, and aren’t much of a target as a HIC would be.

If you don’t want bubbles, play in high sec. High sec is supposed to be the kiddie-area. Low-sec is supposed to be dangerous (and isn’t now days). And Null-sec is empire space, where empires (occasionally) fight each other. Pirates don’t hang out in null-sec because the empires kick the pirates arses. Pirates hang out in low-sec (or used to) because the empires couldn’t claim territory there.

Low-sec is/was/should-be for the outlaws. The ones who aren’t part of an empire (Null-sec-ers) nor the wimps that hang out in high sec the whole time.

If low-sec was so popular, it would be more heavily populated. When I travel through low sec looking for some poor soul to gank, its empty.

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Based on your response I must conclude you scanned through my post instead of reading it, comprehending it and thinking about it. Thanks anyway. :slight_smile: