The chess example was just that an example to illustrate the situation, not to be taken literally. EVE is a sandbox but many people do not realize that this do not just mean they can choose to play as they like but others as well, meaning others can freely choose to be pirates and play in a way that is affecting other people’s playstyles, that is what sandbox means, just as CCP advertised the citadel expansion: “Build your dreams and wreck theirs”. This is intentionally part of the game, part of the rules, as illustrated in my chess example you play the game for the wrong reasons and in a wrong way. Also as explained there are plenty of measures you can take to reduce risks and losses, you just choose not to. As this is a multiplayer game, an MMO at that it is natural other players and their actions are part of the scenario and you have to act accordingly, otherwise a singleplayer game is more suited to you, this game has conflict with other players part of its core, part of the sandbox, so you either play smart according to this or you will have a painful rough time, the choice is yours is all am saying.
Yep, and your example was correct.
You are also correct that this is a Sandbox MMO and there are always players that would rather victimize other players as their goal. That’s fine. If I make a mistake it costs me my ship and time. They essentially have no downside to their play style. They know full well they will lose their ship as a cost of their actions. That is a given expense. If they suffered some form of penalty for doing this long-term I could accept it, but essentially there is no negative to their style. The only work they have to put in is setting up watchers/scanners at gates.
Your response was more along the lines of what I was hoping for. I wished for a conversation, not to be flamed or start word wars with folks.
Since I’ve moved away from Eve and back to Skyrim my computer play will be less challenging and less frustrating at the same time.
You know, the funniest thing is that doing many things in Highsec is far more dangerous than doing those same things in nullsec. In highsec, you can have a group of Trigs drop on you and your ship is blow to bits in seconds. In highsec, if you are in an asteroid belt and a Sansha Retriever or such spawns, you are the enemy, they immediately summon massive reinforcements, and you die before you can warp away. I’ve read that this was intended to discourage afk mining. Based on my experience, afk mining is controlled pretty well by gankers.
What you are saying is completely stupid. Your behavior in-game, of putting everything you had in one ship, was completely stupid. You seem intelligent enough to realize that what happened is your fault - perhaps you just need more time.
If you choose to be a victim then people victimize you. This is true of RL and in the game. And it looks like you choose to be the victim.
The orca isn’t a noob ship so you can’t complain about the poor noobs. Face it you screwed up and died. You now had the choice in how to handle it and decided to be a victim and whine rather than man up and learn from your mistake. Your problem is your own and has nothing to do with noobs, the game, or CCP.
The Orca is a ship that normally isn’t used to do anything between systems because it is slow. I was using it as a moving van.
When I say “victimize” I mean exactly that. It doesn’t matter what you are flying, if these players are of a mind to they will gank you. They have no consequences outside losing the ship they planned on losing. They can carry out these attacks ad infinitum with no penalty ever imposed on them.
Truth be told, I thought I was too small of a fish to worry about and I thought I’d made it past the Eudema area they hang out in.
As for “noobs” and “CCP”, this is a behavior that I personally believe should be punished with a game mechanic. You reach a certain negative standing, you get blasted by concord every time you come to highsec. I can only assume that New players continue to leave because they are being victimized in much the same way I was.
As for me, I’ll accept the label of being ignorant of the level of viciousness in that area. You can call me stupid even. When they chose me it was a foregone conclusion, there was nothing I or anyone could do to help me even if they were of a mind to. Because he who fires the first gets shot by Concord.
your stuff and so? please?
They are in several ways. Faction police, costs to raise sec status again, if the loot fairy doesn’t go their way they lost ships for nothing. No insurance for the lost ships, they have to coordinate the attack with multiple players and accounts etc.
All you have to do to stop them is not be a loot pinata. It’s laughable how easy it is to avoid the problem you have.
Your failure to learn game mechanics doesn’t mean they aren’t there.
There already is. Beyond a certain point, the faction police will harass you in every system, and you become a valid target to ANYONE without Concord intervention.
nothing of value was lost.
The ships they lose is the consequence.
They have to buy their ship. It isnt given to them for free. They paid, out of their own pocket, to buy those ships. Do you know how much 15 taloses cost? 1.5 billion isk. If the gank failed, if you didnt die, they would have lost 1.5 billion isk for no reason. This is the consequence.
Why do you think that carrying SEVEN BILLION would make you small fry?
Ask any new player if seven billion isk is a lot, or little.
Actually, CCP has found the opposite to be true. Players who were shot, stayed longer because they were more engaged and motivated.
You could’ve done a lot of stuff. It’s not as if you were completely new to this game and unaware that ganking exists. You were being stupid, I agree, but more importantly, you were being lazy. There are a lot of things you could’ve done to mitigate the risk. But you chose not to. The only person to blame is yourself, and not CCP or game mechanics.
Not true, if they are criminal, then you can shoot them first without getting Concorded. Anyone can shoot someone who is -10.0. So that is yet another disadvantage for the ganker and an advantage for you.
All you had to do was spread out that haul and make 2 or 3 trips in a tanked DST and no one would have bothered you…
why not just use security containers to transport small valuable stuff? they can not be scanned, can they?
Additionally, mwd + cloak trick is not enough for Orca, but the gankers need more time and attempts to scan you stuff out I suppose.
You had 7 billion to spend, and the gankers had 1.5 billion to spend. You could have spent 100 million to contract your stuff for someone else to move It for you, whereas the gankers would need to spend 1.5 billion to kill you regardless of your loot.
Almost everything about a gank is necessarily advantageous to the victim, and stacked against the ganker.
The ganker will lose isk no matter what. The victim will not lose a penny if he survives.
The ganker only has 20 seconds to kill his target. The victim only has to survive for 20 seconds.
The ganker must coordinate with other gankers, often 10, 15 or even 30 players to fire at the same time. The victim only needs to coordinate with 2, 3 other players.
Imagine playing a world war 2 online game where you are playing against players who have 10 times more health than you, deals 10 times more damage, and there is a timer above your head that counts down from 20, and when that timer hits 0 you die, and your opponent does not have any timer restrictions.
That would be unfair, right? If you came into a game like that, where you had only 20 seconds to win the game, and you needed to bring 10 more players with you to fight a single enemy player, wouldnt you say this game was balanced completely against you, and towards your opponent? Well, that’s what ganking is. The victim is always stronger, in the better position.
16:00 is rush hour. If you’d have moved that stuff at 22/23h, no one would’ve ganked you.
If you assume that everlasting piracy is supposed to be the norm then what you say is correct. It is my belief that it shouldn’t be encouraged. That’s my point, I don’t believe it should be. My opinion counts as nothing. I am not alone in this opinion but most people choose not to try to start a conversation about it.
I don’t do social very well at all. I can’t promise beyond doubt but I think this is the first time in 10 years that I’ve ever been to the Forums for Eve.
I spend 95% or more of my time in Eve playing solo (I’m fairly intelligent but I’m a complete social reject and I know it). So many of the things that you guys say are common knowledge were not and are not to me. That’s my loss. I personally would like to have a place where I could go do what I want and not be bothered by people that just want to blow me up. Not particularly possible, though I do know of some alts that never leave stations.
I think allowing and encouraging this type of behavior is bad business. You say they have negative impacts. I disagree since they choose when to make themselves a concord target, they choose what and when they will lose a ship. Though my sampling hasn’t been scientific, one thing I’ve noticed from looking at player histories is the longest histories seem to be the ones that come out on top of these types of mechanics. The ones interested in mining and other activities tend to have shorter character histories, they also seem to come and go more often.
In the time before my Omegas run out (1 more day) I’ve taken to watching for red capsules and killing them when in a ship that has weapons. Why? To hopefully cost them implants or to just ruin their day. That’s not who I am but that’s who I’ve been forced to become. Luckily for just a short time. I even tried to exercise kill rights on a couple players but can’t figure out how to do so with the tutorials I’ve seen and read. In no case am I doing these things because I enjoy them, I’m doing them in hopes of making them feel the way I do and perhaps add a little unplanned expense to their play choices.
Yeah… OP, you are doing here exactly what those people said about you. Obviously you know that at some level.
As far as building things…if you’ve been playing as mostly an industrialist since 2011…yet everything you owned could fit in an orca…well… ~sadtrombone~
it only 7 billion.
Gooood… goooood… let the hate flow through you
This is a Sandbox MMO. If you choose the life of a space pirate, then that is your choice. Every play style is encouraged.
Yet, we agree that ISK is important, we cant do anything without it. So you cannot agree that ISK is important, while simultaneously saying that there is no negative impact with a group of people losing potentially billions of isk with nothing to show for it. A failed gank, A gank with zero loot drops, these are punishments.
And yes, mining and other activities tend to have shorter character histories, because its boring. The most exciting, the best part of the game is player interaction. That includes being a pirate.
And thats fine. No one here is going to complain that you are doing something wrong, or that CCP should discourage what you are doing.
The thing about freedom, is that you are free to do things, but so are other people. You have the freedom to throw rocks at other people, but they have the freedom to throw them at you too. This freedom is why we come to EVE online. You can be anything you want to be. This includes being a hauler, or being a pirate.
Friendship. Intrigue. Betrayal. Amassing a giant stockpile of wealth, only to have it thrown away in an instant. Eve holds all these things, and more. Here, the weak are culled as prey, and the strong roam the skies as predators.