All Titans, Supercarriers are good for is PvP. But what if there were PvE opportunities where people could use their Molok, or Revenant also for PvE. Like a massive offensive against a new adversary where 20 people could group up and attack the enemy bases with Titants, Supercarriers and Capital Support ships.
Anyone agree?
3 Likes
So, something like pirate factions making their own capital ships in a sotiyo or something, with extra hard rats that defend it, bit you can totally use caps to take on?
3 Likes
You can do lvl5 missions, ratting, crabâs etc. There is a lot of capital PvE content you can do for fun. People just donât do it because it isnât meta isk generation. What you and other wantâs is farming isk in capitals. Might be worth to specify that.
7 Likes
never a truer word said
Well, by the time youâre flying capitals, yes your personal economy probably requires some pretty big numbers.
And by the EVE rule âDonât fly what you canât afford to loseâ, as soon as you start getting into âI can fly caps territoryâ, the first thing you need to do is grind out the ISK and resources for a few more caps so you can âaffordâ to lose the first one.
Then youâre thinking, hey maybe Iâll get in a war or something, or my space gets invaded. I better set aside enough for a couple more caps.
One of the key reasons a lot of ships donât get used in a lot of cases is simply that itâs not economically justified to do so. Why risk a ship worth billions unless itâs earning back billions? Especially when you can already earn billions in smaller and more efficient ships?
So unfortunately the design and economics of EVE does tend to create the situation where flying big expensive ships means youâll likely want to use them to grind a lot of big expensive resources.
One possible approach would be to have some sort of process happening in Null where mixed PvE/PvP type anomalies roll through regions that needs Cap ships to fight. Like a shifting chunk of Warp space or (Warp Conduit entrances) that has random Abyssal type effects and features weird combos of Drifters, Sleepers and TriGlavs. There could be mineable or salvageable resources inside and they could have entrances/exits to several regions of Null.
Heading in to them with your caps and Rorqs etc. would give you an interesting PvE fight, as well as expose you to potential PvP from wherever the other exits are. And any losses or kills could have larger effects on your origin system DBB, so it would benefit the economics there.
Would take some careful programming and careful balancing (meaning CCP wonât even consider it). But it would be a way to have your Cap PvE with some PvP and decent economics as well.
2 Likes
Capital DPS is already ridiculously high, if you are running lvl 5âs in them especially against npcs that generate tags you are already making billions an hour.
Not to mention there is wormholes where caps can do pve which you can day trip in from anywhere. Just scan down a c5 and get your dread in there.
So its gets tricky because then those Cap activities start to depreciate everything that is not run in a cap at crazy rates.
Which leads everyone in the game to feel they need to join the big blocks to use those capitals and keep up and if they choose not to they fall far behind everyone else.
Itâs a slippery slope.
3 Likes
Because I can?
Itâs main issue of current EVE and bitter vets. EVE is fun but no one wantâs or know how to have fun. Everyone just boils to min/maxing and snowballing more isk/assets. And itâs âGrr CCPâ if they donât introduce more krabing opportunities each month so they can double their isk/h
2 Likes
Perhaps. But you donât appear to be. Your killboard says you havenât been risking anything much, and the last thing you were âriskingâ on was Trig farming.
I mean, sure, itâs cool to say âHey just buy your Caps and Supers and Titans and then head out and throw them away in a âgood fightâ. Because good fights man, thatâs the real EVE.â
Except it isnât. The real EVE is the time it took you to grind out the 4-10 billion your fitted Cap cost you to set up. People keep thinking game âcostsâ are about the economy or the currency but in fact the most limited currency anyone has is their time.
So if it took you 6 weeks to put together your first cap, youâre not going to blow it on a âgood fightâ. Youâre going to spend time to earn enough for your second cap. Then youâre going to earn another. Then you might lose a âgood fightâ and think, wow, I need to not do that again because it takes me days to replace what I lost in 30 minutes.
Then youâre going to streamline your grinding. Youâre going to use the right ships for the job. Youâre going to work your way to where you can grind out the ISK for that Cap in a few hours.
And then youâll still find that what took you 4 hours to grind, you can lose in a few minutes. Or get stuck in boring TiDi with it for hours and hours.
Either way, EVE doesnât encourage anyone to just go out and take big risks in expensive ships âjust because they canâ. It might be fun a couple times. After that itâs just stupid.
5 Likes
I bet all that grind is fun more than one time and it isnât stupid.
I get where are you coming from. And you arenât wrong. But that exact mindset is what I complain about. Also EVE didnât change much in that aspect. People changed. When I started playing EVE, this wasnât such big issue. And people tend to do random stuff just for sake of doing random stuff. Now everyone cares only about isk. And suddenly everything is not fun if it donât make isk.
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Well, keep in mind this isnât my own position. I typically fly cheap stuff that I can throw away endlessly, in effect. Iâm simply talking from the standpoint of âhow people play gamesâ.
If you seriously think peopleâs basic behavior patterns have changed in the past decade or so then youâre not really paying attention.
The overall EVE environment has changed, yes. Weâve moved from âfleet warsâ in Cruisers, to BCs, to BSâs, to Caps and Titans. Weâve moved from âexploring the EVE galaxyâ to âeverything is known, controlled, locked down, owned, gate camped, optimized and maximizedâ (generally speaking).
Weâve moved from ISK grinding of 20 mill/hr to 50 mill to a couple hundred mill to billions. At every stage in EVEâs history the forums and blogs are full of âHow to make ISKâ posts and complaints about farmers.
People havenât changed, and player motivations havenât changed. The overall in-game environment has changed. But the key rule of EVE has never changed - âdonât fly what you canât afford to loseâ.
And that means the economics of paying for a ship always trumps the âfunâ youâre going to have by risking the explosion of said ship - in the long run. If a ship takes you 10 hours to pay for, and you canât get 10 hours of âfun risky playâ out of it, then people are always going to need to grind more than they fight. And theyâre going to be risk-averse towards losing their ship, leading to only looking for fights they can win. Again, in general. Thereâs always exceptions.
In general,
is the wrong way to look at it. People arenât grinding ISK âfor funâ. Theyâre grinding ISK to pay for the fun they hope to have later. But then the problem becomes, they have an expensive ship theyâre looking to âhave funâ with⌠and they canât find anything âfunâ to do thatâs actually worth risking that expensive ship.
So they go back to the grind and hope to find more fun later. And they wait for CCP to add âmore funâ. And then 5 years later they quit, because theyâre bored of grinding and CCP doesnât even know what âfunâ is.
4 Likes
This is why I love faction warfare so much and why this patch will hopefully be great, it might reshape the game in a way where fun is more time spent out doing the things you love and less time grinding for the tools to do it.
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I know youâve had high hopes for the FW revamp ever since it was just a rumor. Iâm a little less sanguine because I think of how they âfixedâ FW before, and how they âfixedâ resource abundance and âfixedâ industry.
However, hope springs eternal so letâs hope they can do a better job this time.
That said, the concept of âfaction warfareâ really should be central to the game, not just one area you can optionally take part in. When you choose your faction, the NPE should really be giving you a faction-specific experience and not a generic âmining is coolâ one.
They should set the emotional hook by having your faction threatened, then you face a big threat from your opposing faction and are about to get creamed. Then your âbuddyâ faction sends a force in to save your butt. Then youâre doing something else when you get a call to go and save your faction buddyâs forces, and youâre declared a hero!
So now you actually care about your faction and their foes, and future actions should support your whole faction in some way, or allow you to become traitor and work for some other faction.
At any rate, like the call for âmore capital PvEâ, all this really requires is some new content and some creative, intelligent programming.
You know, that thing that CCPâs been avoiding for a decade now while they throw all your EVE money away on failed side-projects.
3 Likes
That is the thing with games in general these dayâs its like watching a movie where you know the main characters will never die, its emotionally limited.
Compare it to an mmo where there is a possibility where the story line/npcâs or players could literally end the entire server and wipe you/your side or all the players out, forcing everyone to start again.
To know true fear in a video game would be the starting point of a truely epic mmo.
Curiously, I once started designing a fantasy MMORPG with exactly this premise. Two roughly equal sides, not necessarily good or evil but each working towards a goal for their own reasons that would result in the annihilation of the other side. Victory would end that cycle and start the next age.
Needless to say, when I presented it to some other people for feedback and started putting out feelers for backing, the general reply was âwhy would anyone work towards a server wipe and start over? What would be the point?â
Apparently people just arenât properly wired to truly appreciate armageddon.
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Look at path of exile crowed :] they get wiped every 6months. Maybe they take some comfort knowing their old chars move to a different server where they live forever even thou they never play them.
Maybe implementing that alone is enough
Main server wipes but transfers your current char to server B
Start fresh and enjoy the race, but you can always go play one of your old chars at any time.
Imagine it this way around it would be very interesting for Eve.
Current Server we are on now becomes server A you train your char here and everything is an endurance race as usual.
Server B is a new server a Race server where you use your current char and sp/skills from Server A but start without assets. Server B has much greater rewards and much greater danger there is no asset safety and the universe is only 300 systems.
Players on Server B have the ability to wipe the entire server when they win and achieve a certain thing. On wipe all assets from Server B transfer to Server A and you start over.
You made the right choice, it seems like that type of game would suit your type of personality better 
Hi everyone
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Hiya! And what kind of PvE for Capitals would you like to see? 
I used to do Besieged Sites with a Nyx way back in the day. Kinda miss those days. Didnt make a lot of ISK from it but it was quick and easy money.
1 Like