Remove capital ships from the game


(DrButterfly PHD) #1

Capital ships are too powerful and are bad for game play. Last night we experienced a fun fight ruined because 1 guy undocked a capital. We are out entosising nodes in southern Etherium, having fun trying to catch the kitey stuff that was dive bombing our entosis ship. The event was up to 85% in our favor and we were going to win.

Then 1 guy undocks a reverant and starts warping gate to gate, node to node. That ship can 1 shot our hurricanes and we can’t put a scratch on it. It can get to any node in the constellation in the time it takes to entosis (even though the ADM is only 1.6). It’s an instant i-win button that only requires 1 single pilot regardless of if we had 10, 20 or more guys in battlecruisers. And yep, they did go on to win the event even though it was up at 85%.

Capital ships are unattainable to new players and give people who have been playing a long time far too much of an advantage. Removing capitals from the game would level the playing field and stop new players quitting the game when they realize that there’s nothing they can do if that guy in the capital decides he wants to attack them.

Other ideas rather than outright removing caps:
-> Prevent them using star gates. They have to cyno every time they want to move.
-> increase align time.
-> add capitals to the eve map to people have a chance to form up large fleets to fight them like an event.
-> prevent capitals from docking and make them have vulnerability periods (like structures) even when logged off.
-> Make capitals randomly explode on a chance every time they use their warp drive.
-> Significantly reduce the tracking of capitals so that they can only shoot stationary targets.
-> Prevent capitals from warping to entosis nodes.


(Nevyn Auscent) #2

So why did you not entosis 4 nodes at once. Sure the revenant could get to any one node in time, but not all 4.


(DrButterfly PHD) #3

He still would have flown around popping ships uncontested. And they would have had to be tanky ships to survive the cruisers picking them off so we’re not talking super cheap ships. It didn’t help that 4 of the remaining nodes (all of them?) were in one system so he could warp between them. Those things have a much faster align time than I would have expected.

I guess you are right that we could have maybe won the event to kill a 100 million isk TCU if that way if we’d had entosis ships ready and been prepared to suffer heavy losses to achieve it though. Really we were just on a roam and happened to have 1 entosis with us so joined in the event.

Our allies DID have a bunch of entosis ships but I think they got picked off by the same 4-5 faction cruisers we were fighting at our node.


(Sasha Viderzei) #4

Uuuh… I’m not enough experienced to prounouce a good answer, but it just look like you’re a bit angry because you and your friends lost your ships…

Sincerely, Hurricane is a battlecruiser when Revenant is a pirate Carrier, what did you expected ? It’s pretty obvious that it’s hard to kill, and even more when you’re using medium-sized weapons. And capitals can only use stargate outside highsec.

So yeah, I can understand you think Rhodes ships are unreachable (Eve-uni write 151 days of training for a Reverant, but he need the skills of two empires), but it’s not impossible.

About the others “ideas” :

  • Capital and Super-Capital will never be removed from the game, take your head out of the clouds on that point.

  • To use a cynosural field, players have to train extra skills, plus each jump cost the player Liquid Ozone, that one cost a bit higher than the stargaze taxes. And since 2014, jumping that way create the “Jump Fatigue” (again, reduced by extra skills), which prevent the player to jump again, and that counter can go up to DAYS.

  • Capitals are large, but not as large as a system or a planet. Even from a “RP” POV, it would be impossible to precisely locate a ship, even that big, from one point in the cluster to another point. Plus it would make them quasi impossible to play “sneaky” simply because everyone in the server know where you are and what are you movements.

  • About docking caps, if my memory is good, you can only do it in one type one player owned citadel : Keepstar. So (it’s my opinion here) I think you won’t find a lot of caps outside of corporation or alliance controlled systems.

  • The explosion thing is, excuse me, ■■■■■■■ retarded. It’s like gambling, but gambling on something worth billions. And you do it on something each player is obliged to do if he want to play EVE ! Players are forced to use warp drive to go from a point A from B, or else they would be stuck with the regular engine which would literally take years to travel in the case of large systems.

  • Capitals can’t lock moving targets ? Capitals can’t do anything, except being a siege weapon vulnerable to Light Drones, or any ship that go at 1m/s. Sure, the strategy against those Death Stars would be simple, you just have to heat your engine, lock your weapons and watch the computers of something so “advanced” being overwhelmed by your speed, whoaa !

  • I don’t know what entosis links are.

And if the super carrier was with the guys you were shooting, they simply said “dude, we’re going to die and they have a large advantage. Come make some ISK on those poor guys” and bam, he undock something like a Revenant, take the hupperhand in the battle, save everyone and even win some money while becoming the hero of the day.

Fighting in EVE is obviously normal, but don’t expect every player to do it like knights, for honor or everything. If the battle is bad but they have something that could save them, they won’t bother with what you’ll think to take the victory from the cold dead remains of your pod.

I stop here and let the experienced one to talk now.


(DrButterfly PHD) #5

Check my killboard. I lose ships AAAALLLL the time. What I am annoyed about is how powerful 1 single player can be flying one of those ships. If we’d been dunked by 10 guys in battleships or something, we wouldn’t be having this conversation.


(Sasha Viderzei) #6

'Kay, I give you that point.


(Nevyn Auscent) #7

But you weren’t dunked by 1 guy. You were dunked by 6+ guys, since there were 5 faction cruisers who picked off most of your entosis ships, and 1 guy in a Super carrier who you then sat and tried to fight head on.

If the Revenant had been on their own, you could have laughed, just warped out of any node they warped into, or pulled range and picked his fighters off as they came at you, then warped out after taking a few out, and bled them dry.
You could have bubbled it up with a warp in/warp out Interdictor which I’m very sure they couldn’t have locked, and then they would have had to fly the slow way to the edge of the bubble before they can warp again.
And I’m hardly an expert on null tactics here, and I’m seeing options.

To me it sounds like you didn’t bring a versatile enough fleet, and got countered by a small gang (assuming 6 isn’t growing past small gang size)


(Wander Prian) #8

Capitals aren’t OP. You just got outplayed. Next time be prepaired for the possibility of capitals coming into the field and have a tactic ready against them.


(Sasha Viderzei) #9

How can we counter a supercarrier please ?


(Wander Prian) #10

ECM the fighters for example.


(Mina Sebiestar) #11

Ha ha,no.


(Sasha Viderzei) #12

I didn’t know it was possible to ECM the fighters. You mean that we can put them under a stasis webifier, for exemple ?


(Quelza) #13

You could web them, sure, but by “ECM” I’m fairly certain we’re referring to the Caldari e-war tech that prevents the target from locking you for 20 seconds. Like drones, fighters are also vulnerable to ECM.


(Wander Prian) #14

Yes, the fighters are vulnerable to EWAR, with webs and ECM being the best.


(DrButterfly PHD) #15

How many blackbirds would it take to neutralise a reverant?


(Wander Prian) #16

2 would be enough I think for almost guaranteed jams


(Rowells) #17

Did you not try to bubble it? Surely 1 or 2 half-decent dictor Pilots could have just made his life a hell of burning out of bubbles or getting snagged by drag bubbles.

Actually, reading your post a second time, what did you actually try to do?


(Old Pervert) #18

Capitals are far from unattainable; I just attained mine a little while ago, and my 2 alts will be in caps (one dread and one fax) in ~100 days - fax pilot will be a touch longer, but sitll useful if needed.

Regardless, a direct answer to your thread exists in your apparent lack of tactics. Use it as a learning opportunity. Carriers are hilarious in that they are intended to be anti-subcap ships… which are laughably vulnerable to subcaps.

What, praytell, would your hurricanes do to his fighters?

Don’t shoot the carrier. Shoot his fighters. Every single fighter you destroy costs him isk. Lots if he’s using T2 fighters. When he runs out (which he will) you tackle him with some dictors and call in a dread or two to wipe the smug right off his face.


(Bjorn Tyrson) #19

That 1 guys revenant was worth more than your entire fleet *10 (at least) he was willing to risk that kind of isk, why should he not reap the rewards? Especially since it could have gone very badly for him if you had countered it properly with jams and dictors. The gamble could very easily gone the other way. I which case we would now all be posting in a reddit thread about the “scrub who undocked his revenant against a handful of entosisers and lost it”


(Hunter Anubis) #21

bunch of drag t1 bubbles would make his day a nightmare warping all over the place missing his landings by 50-100 km would render it ineficient