They are just biased and base their position on the person posting and not the actual situation.
And when their own alleged facts arent enough, strawmen and trolling suits them just as well.
Hey Una, would be great to hear from you.
All of this deals with the fundamental psychology of open-world PvP MMOs/survival games, and that is that a direct confrontation is always a expected-value (in the big-picture statistical sense) net loss for both parties involved. Even if you win an even fight, but lose half of your fleet in the process, both you and the enemy wind up net-negative (with one being more so than the other).
But you can’t have an open-world PvP MMO/survival game without the element of loss (because then it just becomes a deathmatch game). As such, these games get around this issue by creating the possibility of one party attacking another without consent. These games in effect become games of cat and mouse, with the roles constantly shifting, as participants try to outsmart each other into favorable engagements. For example, in a survival FPS game, if you spot another player down the street, you probably won’t simply openly charge them guns blazing, but will try to ambush them as they turn a corner, or snipe them from a vantage point.
The trick is to provide some kind of incentive for participants to seek despite the risk of getting attacked by other parties. Survival games, for example, accomplish this through mechanics like air drops, which make it possible to get exceptionally good loot if you’re able to successfully loot the crate and then fight your way out of the area and escape with the items. But EVE doesn’t have such mechanics, because all economic opportunities are grind-based and reliant on very static ISK/hour mechanics and considerations.
Let’s imagine a new game mechanic in EVE, wherein rare spawns in high-sec are shown on the universal map, and appear in areas of space that when entered by players would immediately confer a suspect flag, opening them up to attack by everyone else. Maybe the acceleration gate requires specific keys, or lets only a certain amount of players through per period of time to ensure you can’t get a big fleet inside to dominate random players. Boom, you have an instant PvP driver, because a billion-ISK drop in high-sec might entice quite a few players to risk a battlecruiser or something to attempt to score it. I’ve floated similar proposals for static complexes in high-sec (before they were removed entirely instead).
CCP is developing EVE the way they’re doing now either because they intentionally want to foster a static, grind-based environment (more likely than you think), or because their developers aren’t actual gamers, and don’t know how to increase player motivation for specific activities like PvP. Well, I am and I do, but I’m not on their staff and they wouldn’t be able to afford me anyway, so the best they get is an occasional idea post like this.
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This is one effective design for what Resource Wars could have been. (There are others as well.) There are literally dozens of ways to make PvP more enticing without having to give away/exploit major economic benefits.
To get people to participate in risky endeavors, it’s not even necessary to make it a winning move. Players just need a relatively substantial notion that they can get a decent reward, and they will gamble on it. It’s why people were willing to risk expensive ships in the Abyss when it first came out, despite the risk of ship/pod loss.
The cat and mouse style of ambush PvP in EVE currently makes up far too much of the PvP scene. And for most players, regular PvP (combat ships vs combat ships) is simply too high a cost (in resources and time) for very minimal payout.
Rewards do not always need to be financial/ISK based either. A more robust system of PvP encounters with a variety of different reward systems would go a long way towards reversing the steady downward trend of EVE.
If there was a timer on a character that prevents them from undocking for a “significant” (debatable) period of time if they are the aggressor that would be close.
Speaking honestly I don’t think anything can budge an Eve player off their chosen playstyle. Back in the day we used to get a good handful of officer spawns which could be worth over 6 billion isk at the time that was a lot of isk and I don’t think buying isk from CCP was a thing at the time.
The issue is no one really wanted to stay and farm the officer spawns and defend themselves in that area over a long period of time it got too hard for many who ended up leaving. I remember 6 guys leaving our 0.0 npc area and heading back to hi-sec claiming the area was too hard, then a few days later me and another guy found an officer spawn and split it 3.5 billion each when the items sold.
Even today my area is literally void of life yet it is such a rich area with plenty to earn. So in my example the rewards were actually decent x 25 and this still didn’t make people come to the area.
If your idea was implemented I can only see organised groups being set up to chase these drops and be effective at it. They would get allies to bubble/smartbomb gates and get 100s of kills while they chase the drop. Eventually solo type players would give up chasing the drop and drops would become exclusive to experienced organised large groups.
It’s not my idea it’s Destiny Corrupted’s. Yes it is clearly exploitable and not well designed, but at least it’s a step in the right direction and an actual constructive idea, so I gave them a like for that.
I mentioned “there are other ways” and “without giving away/exploiting major benefits” exactly because of the flaws you point out.
However there are too many people who will always say “that idea has a flaw, so forget it” rather than actually working with an idea and trying to flesh it out and improve it.
Let’s face it: virtually all of EVE has a flaw and is exploitable. Two-thirds of everything that goes on in the game is basically farming something that can be exploited for excessive gain.
The bar of “is this worth trying” shouldn’t be “I see a flaw, forget it!”. It should be “would this make EVE more interesting to play and actually lead to long-term growth as opposed to long-term gamebreaking”? (Note that many of CCPs own changes and releases were done to bolster their short-term goals but led to long-term breaking of aspects of the game.)
As it should be. Organizing always helps. I am solo right now and I accept the limitations that come with it. You can def earn a lot even solo, but of course you can earn a bunch more under a safe umbrella.
A worthy confrontation.
Kinda hard to imagine these days and perhaps even harder to describe.
Maybe for many, like in the movies, it would be quite acceptable to just die in a give and take scenario, granted that some noble cause like self defense is in play.
Would there be more or less confrontations or fights under such circumstances? Knowing that even outnumbered, the lower ground holder could succeed?
In some aspects of life and particularly some sports, it is possible to defeat a stronger, more agile or faster opponent basing the strategy on execution of skills out of synchrony in order to unfold an element of surprise that undermine such advantages.
Not too many of those happen here.
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Exactly.
Happens all the time. Its just most of EVE’s denizens can barely play the game, at least in high sec 
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Because the tactical system is boring and lacks any shred of creativity.
Its like the old joke about the dog, “no think, only optimal”
I think any designer or player of Eve should just accept that the concept of the game is quite rigid and there is only so far it can go with regard to design and mechanics.
I’ve not been playing Eve often recently but from what I can tell there have been changes to mining and manufacturing which result in it being harder to do. Obviously this will make people play it safe and take less risk.
Forgive me if this is a stupid suggestion but shouldn’t mining and manufacturing be EASIER if the owners/development team wanted to promote more ship destruction?
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The reactions of gamers to somewhat complex situations can be hard to predict. So ideally something like this would be determined by internal data based on previous periods of production ease.
That said, many people feel we have enjoyed an “age of abundance” since somewhere around the time Rorqual changes made mass mining operations in Nullsec hugely productive. Null AFK ratting for ISK, null farming for materials, and huge corporate production chains led to an undending stream of ships, modules and ISK, flowing into Jita, causing inflation, devaluing the efforts of other industrialists, etc. etc.
Supposedly, so say CCP and a number of high sec ganker types on the forum, ending this “abundance” will somehow “fix the economy”, lead to more and better players, and drive new levels of destruction and conflict. Because since everyone won’t be rich, and ships won’t be cheap, for some reason this will drive us all out of our stations in order to “fight over the things we need”.
As you suggest, it seems to me that if I have lots of ISK, and ships are cheap and widely available, I am certainly more likely to engage in PvP than if I have less ISK and ships are expensive.
The only barrier to me going out to engage in destruction, if I have lots of ISK and access to cheap ships, is in fact any motivation to do so. Why would I bother? I have everything I need to do anything in the game. I can certainly PvP if I choose, but given the extremely poor design of PvP in EVE, all that will mean is I take many hours to seek out PvP that isn’t completely one-sided against me, maybe win maybe lose, but almost certainly end up with less than I did before.
So I build a position of abundance and all PvP does is take my own abundance away from me. So CCP thinks, okay, you like your wealth so much, we’ll take that away from you, and now you’ll fight, by God!
Or something. Or possibly they’re not even thinking at all.
Personally, I think maybe, just maybe, if they made PvP more interesting and less pointless, that would lead to more destruction.
But I’m just an idiot player, what do I know? Right?
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Economic relationships are (almost) never linear, so that relationship looks more like a parabolic curve than a straight line.
Too little production and people become too cautious due to higher prices and risk, but too much and people become too cautious due to profit margins being so low that even low risk doesn’t make certain activities worth doing. Turn up the faucets too much, and players aren’t going to be able to grow their relative wealth. This is pretty much what’s been happening over the past few years, where PvE has been the easiest and most profitable it has ever been over the course of the game’s life, but no one except the mega-wealthy was better off for it.
Plus, the curve is skewed due to imbalances stemming from the fact that big chunks of the player base are split between the PvP/PvE divide, and when you have a situation in which a portion of the players only produces while a portion of the player base only consumes, the consumers aren’t able to sustain their activities at optimal levels and actually start acting more conservatively despite dropping prices.
Isk and resource gathering got out of hand which resulted in losses being meaningless, even Supercap losses.
On top of that CCP wants more interaction between different areas and specialisations when it comes to production. Less self reliance, more trading, more teamwork (eek!).
This of course pisses off the autism beancounter afk multibox/botters, especially the null ones and since null blocks rely on these… people they’re doing the carebear rage thing. Many of them are really just null alts: orchestrated, pretending and shouting that it’s bad for every miner. It’s not, normal/actual players benefit.
PVP is actually quite amazing because some of the time it is a test of who knows their ships better and who can adapt faster and counter the opponents ship/fleet.
Back in my hub zero days we wanted to live in Stain NPC 0.0 many of us loved it there and we used to get hauler spawns which would drop a huge load of minerals, many times they dropped 50 million trit, 3 million mexallon, 150k zydrine those were great days. As we were farming those spawns we would get attacked by players and have to fight back if we wanted the mineral drop.
My point is that PVP was interesting because it would help us gain minerals that were hard to get in the area WE chose to live in. PVP was not pointless to us because it seemed to be a necessary action which helped us secure minerals for our cause.
Can you see how you and I have a wildly and totally opposite opinion of the game? If I was the owner/designer of Eve then from my perspective it would be impossible to suggest anything or cater to an Eve player such as yourself. I have a feeling designers may be going wrong trying to cater to gamers like yourself.
On any game I play, I put it on the hardest setting and go for it which made Eve ideal for me, I quickly found myself in one of the most dangerous places in the game and got to work prepared to do anything I needed to in order to survive.
I only wish that players like yourself were open to being shown a different playstyle, If you had come for one of my adventure you would have been on the edge of your seat with excitement and you would have helped your buddies in danger and really enjoyed it.
As I said in earlier posts we can’t fully blame the owners, players must also take responsibility for the current state of the game.
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You have learned to EVE. I warn you now, most others and her esp, will mock you for it.
Keep on making that content and having fun.
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Nah, you’re just confused. And if you think “PvP should be more interesting” makes it “impossible to cater to me” then you’ve got a very deficient imagination.
I’m glad you enjoy PvP in EVE. I see that you enjoy it so much, that every 3-4 months you lose another handful of ships to it, and kill a few AFKs. That must be such a thrill for you!
Players do what’s interesting and rewarding for them in a game. By CCPs own stats, less than 15% of players participate in PvP in their “hardcore PvP-centric game”. Production outweighs destruction by 2-3 times because it is literally more enticing in EVE to mine, AFK rat and do industry than to PvP.
If PvP isn’t interesting to players, they won’t do it. It’s as simple as that. That’s on CCP and game design. Only an idiot would say “that’s the players fault for playing a game but not wanting to do things that don’t interest them. For the good of the game, they should do the stuff they get no enjoyment from!”
Feel free to reminisce with rose-colored classes about your great days of PvP. Your zkill shows just how interesting it really is.
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LOL look at the hateration. You can’t stand someone actually having fun in the game huh?
Its not that PvP isn’t interesting. Its players who are too scared to lose a ship
I mean this is “real combat fit ships” in “real PvP”, You think you would be encouraging to someone since you claim to love PvP. Yet you turn into a troll and condescendius maximus cause the dude is actually having fun.
Keep moving those goal posts tho
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