I was under the impression it was “impossible” to have a pve fit that could do pvp or vice versea.
I’ve not seen anyone attack you personally as such, they have just given an opinion on your views. As I mentioned before there is only so far the concept of Eve online can go, and speaking honestly I would find it extremely difficult to discuss any pvp related idea with you only because of your lack of experience.
All of them are bad, and the fact is even if changes were made exactly to your specification you still wouldn’t do any pvp. You find pvp boring in a game that is specifically designed AND promoted as a pvp game? what was the eve marketing slogan “Build Your Dreams, Wreck Their Dreams” or some such. Are you really that oblivious to these facts even though they are pushed right in your face?
The ideas you have brought forward or promoted or agreed with are already in the game, for example there are areas of the game with wonderful loot which don’t need an event to market them, I believe someone mentioned a loot drop which everyone will rush to pick up. Also there are people flying around in fits worth billions of isk, if you can kill one of these guys then you get their loot. So that specific idea is already in the game. You just don’t like what you have to do to achieve it.
I remember when I was mining in 0.0 using a Prospect, suddenly a true sansha frigate attacked me which I killed with an alt, I got a True Sansha Warp Scrambler worth 80 million isk at the time, so I felt mining was profitable 
You know full well what I am arguing against, It is people like you wanting changes to the game without even knowing the game, The fact that you don’t know pvp means you are not in a position to give any in-depth review on the game. By doing so you could put new players off and give them the complete wrong impression about Eve.
Trust me I will always be here to question people like you, there is no way I’m going to let you talk on here without your viewpoints being challenged if I feel you don’t know what you’re talking about. I am making sure that new players can see me challenging your view and to make sure they have the correct info so that they can make a properly informed decision weather to continue playing and progress in this game.
Have you seen the learning curve graphic? Eve online is liked because it has a difficult learning curve many people already leave, we really don’t need you making it worse. Please could you get some practical experience on the subject you are talking about before talking about it.
EDIT: Also Eve is a great game for making friends and feeling like your part of something, I’ve been playing since 2003 and many of my friends have left which actually makes me sad. No game in the entire history of gaming has ever made me feel this way so the designers of eve already know something I don’t simply because they made a game that has got me feeling emotional at times.
I had 2 pvp buddies, Roosterton and Last Rites, one of these guys stole from me before he left which really upset me to be honest, but I still miss him. I’m telling you when you do good pvp with good friends there is no feeling like it,
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What’s personal about asking you to define what you mean by “stronger ships”? You just dodged it as you already know the hole you dug 
You haven’t backed up anything either. You say data and stats but provide none
Ah. Yennoe, you even had me going a little that you actually believed the stuff you were pushing. But the sophistry here says it all Sigh. Just another troll for the pile I guess.
I mean some can be effective but without scram/web you can’t force them to stay but you could drive them off.
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Im just riffing on the absolutes that get said in these forums a lot.
I put a Scram/web on my Sacrilege because I want to, but I still use it for PvE as exclusively as I can.
Okay, got it, so you haven’t even picked up on a single idea and don’t have any clue what you’re arguing against. You just saw some post that said “EVE PvP isn’t very good” and went riding off on your hobbyhorse to defend that amazing, exciting activity that you participate in… 7 days a year. Factually speaking.
Yes well that stands to reason, since you weren’t able to identify a single one of them.
Once you get a little more experienced in the world, you might notice the difference between marketing slogans and delivered product. It’s a pretty important difference.
Well that’s certainly well-balanced by arguing against things you don’t even know about. I also didn’t provide any in-depth review of the game. I provided facts about specific aspects of EVE (how PvP mechanics work, not how 1% of PvPers “feel” about it), how many players participate in PvP, how ganking as a mechanic leads to more unhappy players than happy, and how and why MMO players participate in activities in a game.
Then made some suggestions as to how, specifically, EVE PvP could be modified to encourage higher levels of player participation. The only thing you got out of all of that is “you don’t like PvP, you don’t know how, you can’t talk about it”.
The one thing you even picked up on, “bigger loot drop for players to rush to” was Destiny Corrupted’s idea, that I commented on. And then you went back to rose-colored reminiscing about the good’ol days.
You don’t even have the slightest idea of cause and effect in player decision-making as to staying in a game. The “learning curve graphic” doesn’t means players like EVE because of the difficult learning, it means a very very few of them stay despite the learning curve. And believe me, deep discussions of how PvP works on the EVE forums isn’t scaring away new players. CCP does that just fine on their own.
At any rate, you jumped in on a convo you didn’t even understand because you got triggered, you got called on your rosy remembrance about how great EVE PVP is by the fact that even a fanboi can barely be bothered to participate in it, and now you’re throwing out everything you can except actual understanding of what you’re arguing about in an effort to look less foolish.
When you can demonstrate understanding of what you’re even arguing against, other than “no you can’t say EVE PvP is bad!”, we may have something to discuss. Until then, babble on like the other PvPers do. It’s a wonder you folks get much PvP done in-game at all, you’re all so sensitive and defensive.
Oh, whoops, sorry, I forgot. Your records show you don’t.
Sorry, your attempts at attacking my mentality won’t work.
I feel I have made my point. but you are unable to understand it. I can see from some responses of other players that they are not taking you seriously and I would hope any new player reading this exchange will not take you seriously either.
It’s fine to have suggestions but for people to take you seriously your suggestion must be based on something more than data alone.
Just so you’re 100% clear on what I am arguing with you about: People who have no practical experience on PVP shouldn’t even be making suggestions on how to change it. I have mentioned this a few times before but you have chosen to ignore what I’ve said and still ask me why I am engaging you in convo.
Might I suggest that you actually leave Eve and play another game where you do feel like you can be involved in PVP. At this point it is pointless you typing anything else on this subject as everyone reading this can see what you’re up to.
Your trolling is pretty good I must say, you have actually inspired me to join a car enthusiasts website and start making suggestions on how to improve the cars without having owned one or even driven one.
Actually, I said his suggestion was already in the game and I gave examples of the loot drops I have received, the fact that many people might not be aware of what loot they can already get in certain parts of the game is worrying. One would only know this if they did more than stay in hi-sec and talked to more people who have a positive outlook about Eve. Obviously the possibility of a 6 billion isk loot drop is not enough for you… what would be enough of a loot drop value to make you want to pvp 100 billion? 200 billion?
Someone mentioned you are part of the AG group, speaking honestly I do find some of them quite negative in their approach to Eve and you seem to share in their negativity.
Also @Destiny_Corrupted has actually done some pvp, he has teamed up with friends and got some good kills, I would be happy to discuss the positives and negatives of his idea WITH HIM because he has some pvp experience, He knows what it is like to be in a fleet, he knows the great feeling one can get when their pvp goal is achieved. I hope this makes my point clearer for you.
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Was that a dig at me by any chance 
But I can assure you that the aforementioned player is not part of my group if that helps?
Hi Drac, no not at all.
Whatever I have to say about you I already have 
I’m talking about the ones that don’t fully understand pvp and why ganking happens. I know you well, you have come out of your comfort zone and done extensive pvp so your opinion is valid here, I may not always agree with you though.
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Thanks, just checking.
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Doubt.
It’s a game, why would people play it if not for fun?
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Fact. By CCP’s own statistics, less than 15% of logins engage in PvP. (13.8% here)
Take 15%. Subtract the gankers, the math for profits, the e-peeners, the grudge matches.
Feel free to give me an estimate of how many players are left engaging in PvP ‘for the fun of it’ in this supposedly PvP-based game. Then make a case for how it’s not a small percentage.
People in general aren’t playing EVE for the PvP fun. They’re playing it for the space economy. And there’s significantly fewer of them doing it every year.
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Of the 6 characters that I regularly log in on, only 2 of them regularly engage in PvP. That’s 33%.
Now I like doing PvP, but what if there’s another player like me with 6 characters who does not like engaging in PvP?
Now we get very close to your number: 16.5% of logged in characters engaging in PvP. And that while 50% of the players enjoy PvP.
Strange, how numbers work.
I dare say that most people who do PvP for profit do so because they enjoy doing PvP for profit. Similarly for people who do PvP to fight for their territory because they enjoy doing PvP to fight for territory.
Because if they didn’t enjoy that activity, why play a game at all?
So I’ll make the guess that the vast majority of people who engage in PvP enjoy doing PvP. And that, even if many characters never engage in PvP at all, the number of players who engages in PvP is much higher than the number of characters who engage in PvP.
If I had to make a guess, I say about half of the EVE population enjoys PvP.
Why else would they be playing such a PvP-centric game?
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Thank you for demonstrating that some people understand the difference between a couple of personal anecdotes, and the actual behavior of hundreds of thousands of players. And some people don’t.
Thank you for guessing a number out of the blue with absolutely nothing to back it up. I’m sure it’s very valuable. Especially since every data source ever published by CCP disagrees.
Because it isn’t PvP-centric. It’s a massive space economy simulator that features a relatively small amount of PvP as a marketing hook. If you don’t understand the difference between a marketing label and the actual product, that’s OK. Because none of the other PvP cheerleaders seem to either.
At any rate, I’m done arguing this one. Xucca’s OP asks what can be done to increase destruction aside from “more ganking”. I said one way would be to improve EVE PvP mechanics and make it more appealing and accessible to more players.
Apparently the PvP crowd really really really doesn’t want to see that happen. Go figure.
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Thank you for misunderstanding how anecdotes can help you understand flaws in your interpretation of numbers.
What my anecdote showed was not proof that it was much higher, just proof that your number does not prove what you are claiming it to be.
You were waving with numbers that you did not understand.
Saying things like ‘15% of characters logged in participate in PvP - that must mean that the amount of people enjoying PvP is much less than that’. ← this is silly.
The amount of players participating in an activity can be vastly different than the amount of characters participating in an activity.
Due to the way specialised characters work, we know that if only if every PvP player has 100% PvP characters, the amount of characters participating in PvP is indeed representative for the amount of players participating in PvP, like you claim.
My anecdote showed that I, as PvP player, have more non-PvP characters than PvP characters, so we know that not to be true.
Therefore we can conclude that the amount of players participating in PvP is higher than the amount of characters participating in PvP. And my guess (based on my own experience where only a third of my characters does PvP) is that the amount of players participating in PvP is significantly higher than the amount of characters. If I would take myself as a representative example, three times higher.
Yes, you asked me to guess, so I guess. I’d like to see your guess too, and hear why you think that. I’ve given explanation, not just waved with numbers that I did not understand.
The data sources you show are indeed data. But data does not disagree by itself. You will need to be able to understand what the data is in order to use it in an argument.
Even the full player market is competition between players.
If anyone asked me to explain EVE to them, I would tell them it’s a MMO spaceship game with a fully player-driven industry and market based on resources you gather in space, with PvP everywhere.
If one of your friends would ask you for a fun non-PvP spaceship game, would you recommend them EVE? “Yea, you can do market and shoot space pirates and such, there’s also some PvP but that isn’t a big deal in this game…”
Your friend probably won’t like finding out how the game really works.
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So 29% of players warp through null… You actually need to be somewhat pvp ready to warp through null if you’re not then you most likely would have died. So it is safe to say that anyone warping through null is aware of pvp and should have fitted modules to either kill or avoid anyone trying to attack them. That is still pvp in my opinion.
Also we need a definition of what “Do Pvp” actually means. are they only counting people who fleet up and manage to get a kill? Are they counting people who were skillfull enough to gate crash and survive by going back into the system they came from when they found the system they jumped into was camped on the gate? One who has done pvp will ask these questions, One who has not done any pvp won’t ask any questions and would likely take this graph as fact.
Does “Do Pvp” include a pilots who were attacked in null while doing a mission and then used his 2nd account flying a falcon to jam the aggressors targeting and escape with both his ships intact?
Please let me know an answer to my questions then I will be able to determine if this graph is actually accurate.
So to be clear I am asking someone to define precisely what “Do Pvp” includes, once I have an answer I can then decide if the graph is accurate, until that point all I can say is I don’t know if that graph is accurate, since it has no text describing what each section includes.
Absolutely! It is a fact that each player can have 3 characters.
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Is it players though, or is it characters?
As 20% of ‘everyone who logged in’ does never even dock, my guess is that this graph is about characters, considering it’s easily possible to play the game with one character that sits in Jita and never undocks, but is pretty impossible to play the game without undocking as player.
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We’ve been saying this many times but some people don’t like facts and logic.
By your own admission, you don’t even play bro
And you’re a coward who hides behind an alt.
Yennoe for someone who loves PvP as much as you purportedly do, I figure you’d want to be infamous as it’d increase the chances of people trying to kill you. But there is a reason you post behind an alt
As for me? I’ll continue to enjoy EVE as it should be enjoyed. It gives me Thanos smiles on a grateful universe type joy knowing that I’m trundling around New Eden, having fun, while you aren’t even logged into the game and yet it consumes your life so much you are posting in the forum while not actively playing.
My new term for this is “CCP ganked your soul”. It is the ultimate form of loss in EVE. CCP got you so hard, that you forum warrior for a game you no longer even play. In reality, CCP ganks people harder than other player could
I mean Aiko comes in second, considering she bullied Drac into re-subbing so she may one day even surpass her creators as it were.
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Why do people post in alts? Are they afraid they’ll lose their space streed cred or some sort of bs?
“Ccp gangked your soul” priceless XD
It means that that character was a party on a kill mail. The statistic becomes very deflated if they don’t remove the outliers like players who try the game for 3 hours and then quit, or SP farming characters that never leave their birth station and such.
The real statistic is that probably around a quarter of all players willingly engage in PvP, and maybe around half of those do so aggressively. This is much more in line with poll data from EVE and various other similar games, even those that are 100% PvP-driven like FPS survival games. I don’t know if you play those games, but even in zombie survival shooters, most of the players try to avoid combat entirely, and their forums are also full of people asking for PvP flags, PvE servers, etc. I’d say that another quarter of players don’t particularly seek out PvP, but accept its presence, understand its importance, and don’t complain about it. The other half are the serial whiners.
The fundamental issue isn’t that most players don’t enjoy games for the PvP, which is a given, but that most players of these games pick the wrong games to play. If the experience you seek is to solo-farm PvE content without ever being attacked by (or even having to interact with) another player, EVE should be on the bottom of your list, yet most of its players are like this. Why? I don’t think we’ll ever know.
Still enjoying how the player who was heralded by the AG/anti-nonconsensual-PvP lobby as a good PvPer is tearing into one of their affiliates, and they’re just uncomfortably standing around and watching the bloodbath like a bunch of wildebeests instead of defending one of their own.
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