The only way bounty hunting can ever work is if CCP removes the guaranteed death to NPCs game mechanic from criminal activity, so that criminals are able to use ships that are actually worth destroying.
True. SWG had a so-so bounty system. It was just more useful because you could track players.
I’d def grind standings and pay more ISK for an agent who could live track a player for a limited amount of time.
I liked the old days of “bounty hunting”. Piss people off in Jita so they put a bounty on you, wait till it’s worth it, log in an alt, jump in rookie ships, undock, shoot, collect bounty.
Then all you have is a different type of ganking that becomes more like lowsec gate camping. No concord response would enable gankers to fly different doctrines and there by force AG players to up their game as well. While the gank targets lose either way.
But that was also what was wrong with it, not that I didn’t do that myself. All it really did was give money to people you don’t like, and scaring newbies in Rookie channel who got bounty bombed.
There would be no CONCORD response only if an AG engages the ganker(s) before CONCORD is able to engage. CONCORD would still come by default.
Although it shouldn’t be a kill trigger either way. Maybe exceptionally-powerful NPCs, but not a kill trigger.
Oh that just makes it waaayyyy to easy to manipulate, in the gankers favour.
A few Alpha alts sitting around gankeres no longer die to Concord - Lose Lose for their victims.
Gankers find target, an alt engages gankers, no concord - gankers kill target and dock back up.
The privilege would extend only to specific corporations that meet requirements to be “deputized” by CONCORD.
There could be two distinct tiers, trainees and full-fledged. Trainees would act as they do now, with CONCORD still spawning and doing its job. But if the corporations’ destruction values against criminals during gank attempts pass a threshold (that needs to be maintained), then they become full-fledged bounty hunters and CONCORD no longer comes in if they engage a criminal during a gank in progress, and are now eligible for all of the rewards of the profession. This way it would be difficult, if not impossible, to exploit the system, since in order to bypass CONCORD, gankers would actually need to meet quotas to destroy their own ships during ganks.
Yes, although the payout is clear for a ganker (kill and drops) whereas the payout would always be a ‘maybe’ for convoy/escorts. Although someone could, in the current game setting, set up a service like Red Frog or PushX, guaranteeing safe conduct for a charge.
Although ganking makes a lot of noise, I think the percentage of it isn’t really high enough that anyone could make a business out of a protection racket. (Except, perhaps, the gankers themselves. Which would be funny.)
However from a more robust ‘gameplay adding’ viewpoint, CCP could expand various features of the contract system. For instance, protection contracts. A corp could contract to protect a certain asset (ship, citadel, etc.) for a certain amount of time for a specific fee, paying collateral against failure.
This could potentially even replace the bounty system, with people taking out “punishment” contracts on a pilot, corp or alliance, that would pay out a certain % based on assets destroyed.
False. As usual. First, AG isn’t an “effective counter” to ganking, it’s a tactic that fails more than it succeeds, at a cost, for no pay other than donations.
Second, AG has the same counter that “AFK freighting” does - the gankers can spend an extra Catalyst to take out an AG ship. It just changes the math and makes it a less lazy activity.
Third, you can’t use “AoE weapons without restriction” because you get Concorded just like anyone else.
Wow, you really do twist your narratives until they’re at the breaking point, don’t you? Game mechanics don’t favor AG, they make AG almost entirely ineffective. Warp time, gate chokepoints, scouting, parking off-grid or in stations, 15 minute timers and reship, and standings all work for gankers and against AG, among other things.
And ganking pays. AG doesn’t. That’s the biggest mechanic of interest right there. Please stop making up drivel to support your one-note agenda. It’s just sad.
Yep that’ll work, why not get Devs working on more convoluted game mechanics to suit a minority of the player base.
They can’t even get ice and gas sites to spawn after their last try at “fixing” something that wasn’t really broken.
For Bobs sake, don’t give them more things to fuk up.
I’d suggest they fix the core mechanics surrounding safety - sorry I meant SOV - and the overall lack of the need to PVP.
You know, the ones they so quickly broke a few years back chasing a quick buck.
I think my post about 7 hrs ago would be a good starting point.
Remove some of the safety so many take for granted.
I’m pretty sure if the game had reasons to fight, a lot more players would get into it.
I know a lot of gankers who actually live in nulsec, sadly there is nothing interesting to do out there so they come to highsec and go ganking.
Ganking and incursions are about the only two endeavours left in Eve where co-operation with others is what makes it worth it. Oh and moon mining I guess but the only ones who really profit from that are alliances and large scale multi boxers (thanks to the latest “good idea”, “this’ll fix it” from CCP)
Doesn’t sound like anything I should be worried about.
Stop lying, you can die.
It depends on your perspective, the haulers loot is there for anyone to scoop so one could argue that if AG were present at all ganks then they could have access to the loot if it’s dropped. if they are successful then the hauler survives and the reward is satisfaction from achieving the goal.
I’ve read stories of AG members destroying loot drops from ganked haulers. Gankers seem to be able to easily find out where haulers are so the gank scouts aren’t doing anything the AG can’t do.
Based on what I know of PVP in a gank scenario the goal for the AG would be to help concord reduce the DPS being imposed upon the hauler and possibly rep the hauler so the gankers goal is harder to achieve. In my opinion this is a great mini game because the AG need scouts who think like the Gank scouts. then the AG need to have a fleet standing by to assist whenever a hauler is attacked.
There is a great opportunity for pvp there, so my argument could also be that the AG are lazy due to the fact ganks still happen. The AG are not organised well. I hope I have made it clear here that it is also human behavior that affects the level of pvp and not just game mechanics.
Also, you seem to think this AG thing has to be about business, why can’t it be purely about fun??? If someone can organise the AG better and slow down gankers further then they get respect for playing Eve and creating content. I know you understand that this is a difficult and time consuming game so you automatically think a reward is needed for everything done in the game. In most cases changing the mechanics of Eve won’t promote more people pvp’ing.
If only it was so simple…
There are people that hang around and try to scoop the loot before the gankers.
At one point AG developed a group of people willing to shoot loot, but as soon as AG started doing it in a systematic way the gankers got the rules changed to make the wrecks have a much higher EHP. But for the brief period that this was being done the crying by gankers was incredible…
Scouts, well one guy I know has a lot of accounts and covers the same gates that Kusion can in Uedama for example. And he has a fleet of burst Ospreys too.
It is not a case of being lazy. There is a guy who was in Uedama with a burst Osprey doing great work, saving people quite often, but time and time again in would jump a person with max cargo who would die so quickly as they had no buffer. How many times could you keep at it if you saw this happen again and again? How much fun is that?
The gankers often ask the question why do you bother trying to save stupid people like that and they have a point. I and many other AG have stopped a lot of ganks, but the biggest issue is that most people who are victims have made seriously bad choices and have no clue what to do, it is not being lazy, it is more often than not trying to save dumb people who have no idea at all.
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Yup, at some point even the must truest of anti pirate/AG goes “fck it, you deserve to burn” and a massive antipathy grows until:
Not really, I guess this is more what Aaron perhaps means by being lazy, in that I only do AG when I have nothing else to do. I guess you can call it being lazy, but it is based on the simple fact that I am often trying to save lazy and stupid players.
I could offer services for Uedama to help people get through, the weak link in the gankers arsenal is that initial tackle ship and I know how to remove that. But the player who is the prey must also do several things right to win that fight, perhaps this will help
AG doesn’t have to be about business/profit or at least cost-recovery, but if it isn’t then it’ll always be an extreme minority activity done primarily for RP or grudge purposes.
Incorrect. The game mechanics favor ganking. If AG people strike first they get Concorded. They have to wait until the gankers fire and get flagged. They also have to hit many multiple targets instead of concentrating fire on a single target. They also don’t know in advance which target the gankers will select, although they can guess. And AG doesn’t pay.
Waiting until after gankers strike generally means you don’t save the target, you just get in on the Concord killmails. At any rate, the thread isn’t about AG, it’s about encouraging more destruction which means more PvP, not AG which is in some ways less PvP and a different topic.
I don’t “automatically think” a reward is needed - this is clear, demonstrable, historically proven game behavior. Gamers engage in activities they find rewarding. They dothings that aren’t rewarding, but very rarely - “just for shits and giggles” is the phrase that applies.
CCP’s own stats make this clear (MERs). When CCP bumps up the drop rate on kills, PvP rate goes up. I can absolutely guarantee you that if CCP completely removed drops from kills, and all you got was a killmail, that ganking would drop to an absolute all-time low. It’s mostly done for profit, not for ‘fun’.
Again you are absolutely and wildly incorrect. Either that or you have a very strange idea of what “game mechanics” are. One of the most essential ‘mechanics’ in any game is the reward system. As said, give ganking zero reward, it will virtually disappear.
If you made it so that every player ship dropped a 20 million ISK dogtag, PvP would increase. If you made it so that you need 100 million in FW destruction to fly navy/fleet ships, PvP would increase. If you made it so you need 200 million destruction of illegal targets to unlock Pirate ships, PvP and destruction would increase.
Sorry to have to come back to this, but you yourself admire and say you greatly enjoy EVE PvP, and yet you engage in it - seven days a year (less, really). The pattern of your engagements show that a fair number of those were duels. You literally barely engage in PvP at all - and you’re a fan.
One assumes that the other 358 days of the year, you’re doing something that’s actually rewarding. And whether you do or don’t is frankly irrelevant, because MERs and CCP stats show players engage in rewarding behaviors 3-6 times as much as PvP. And that the primary PvP activities are all also reward-based (gank for profit, FW, null fights etc.). They aren’t being done ‘for fun’.
PvPers go on and on about how “carebears won’t PvP because risk”. Which is again, demonstrably false. They risk haulers, they risk mining vessels, they risk their exploration ships, they risk their mission ships every day of the year. What people do is look at “time efficiency for reward”, although they generally won’t call it that or even calculate it. They just know from experience when they’re getting enough reward per hour to engage in an activity. Or else they get bored and switch to something else.
Players in EVE do PvE because it’s more rewarding, not because they hate PvP (in general).
Change the reward mechanics and you change the PvP participation rate, it’s as simple as that.
But what you’re listing there requires effort. Effort to realise you actually have agency, effort to then start thinking about how to solve it or effort to ask questions, effort to read or watch a youtube guide, effort to actually try it and practise and of course effort to actually use it an not be afk on AP.
If people would do what you listed there (which is a good list) then 95% of the ganks wouldn’t happen but again: it requires brain effort and thus people won’t do any of it but rather blame others and the game for their own lack of efforts.
I guess it also differs per person: I’m quite happy to invest time & effort into helping people who show they are interested in doing better and put in genuine effort (if only through asking a question in Rookie for instance), at the same time I enjoy watching lazies and stupids burn 
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When I was a noob living in npc 0.0 and not knowing how to pvp, a falcon pilot easily came and jammed my targeting and I didn’t have a clue what was going on I was unable to pvp. When I eventually learned of FOF missiles, I trained them fitted them on my ship and defended myself against the Falcon which never bothered me again.
Now, what if I had your attitude and thought, I’m not going to try and counter this guy unless there is a reward? My game would never be what it is today. My reward was being able to pve without being threatened with ship loss, It’s not a great reward but I was fine with it at the time.
I’m sure every pilot who is bothered to try pvp will tell you a similar story of how they first started pvp, if you analyse the stories most of them will be about survival and prosperity and not being rewarded. If you talk to others and ask them thier story you’ll read things like “Finally we were able to defend ourselves” or “We got better at pvp and stomped them which enabled us to pve” the pvp stories you read will be about self betterment and enjoying victory NOT “There was a massive reward so i learned to pvp”
I’m aware there’s nothing I can really say to you which will get you to see my factual point of view, I guess you will never know really because your only sources of info are graphs and data without the experience of being there doing it.
I actually feel bad for you as you’ve made up your mind about this game without trying everything it has to offer first. If you keep up with this attitude you will miss out on the great entertainment Eve can offer.
I don’t know about you, but I’m unable to asses something without experiencing it first. Obviously you are different from everyone on the planet because you’re able to know in-depth information without going through the motions of learning about it.
There really are 1000s of games you could have played with the exact same features you describe, you really should quit Eve and go play one of those games as it seems to be exactly what you want in a game. Why are you bothered to play a game that will never ever change in the way you want it to?
My offer is still open, come down to npc 0.0 Stain and you and I will be Sansha mission specialists and we will try our best to deal with any pvp that comes to us. If the answer is no then I’m afraid you and people like you are the problem, not the game mechanics. If the answer is no then please could I have an in-depth answer which is more than “there’s no reward for me to come to stain”
I hope you do come and on your first day you get attacked, we reship and then kill the attacker, it would be so interesting to hear the thrill of victory in your voice while on comms.
So there you have it, someone has offered you an opportunity to understand pvp better, Will you come out of your comfort zone? Or will you remain ignorant and think you know what you’re talking about?
Another thing you don’t understand is that you coming to live in Stain will bring pvp right to your doorstep and it will put you in a position to pvp anytime you like. The fact that people don’t come and join me in Stain is a reason why there is less pvp. I’m very frustrated with people like you Kezrai, you simply have no clue how powerful you are and it’s annoying.
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The problem is you don’t understand the difference between facts, reality, and “how you feel about something”.
Your point of view isn’t factual. You tell an anecdote about yourself, then make up some stories about “other PvPers” which has no backing, no numbers, and not a single shred of evidence.
This isn’t “factual”. This is the illogic of someone who buys lottery tickets. This is the ‘reasoning’ of someone who thinks climate change doesn’t exist because “last winter was really cold!”.
And again you fall back on “you should leave EVE” - presumably because you don’t like how my points keep leaving you twisting in the wind and you’d rather not face them.
News flash for you, in case your “factual point of view” still needs to deny objective reality: I’m not having a hard time in EVE. I have more stuff than I can use. I’m not saying I hate PvP or can’t do it. I’m not saying “Oh no I got ganked”. I’m basing an objective view of the facts on an objective assessment of how game mechanics work in EVE.
I’m not, for instance, bullshitting people with made-up anecdotes when my very own record proves I’m full of crap.
That’s a pretty significant difference bud. Gosh, maybe you should “leave EVE” and find a game where your play record matches the stories you make up, do ya think?
I think someone needs a hug.