Hit me up sometime if you want to play. We should have an EVE chess tournament.
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…yeah, I kinda failed my reading comprehension there, didn’t I?
That said, I don’t really understand your logic or what you want here. I see your complaints but I don’t get what you want to be done about them. Could you be more specific?
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How would you even do that, anyway? Put players in various ships and have two FCs order them to move like chess pieces? How would you measure the grid?
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I mean, you could do that I guess with a board made of mobile depots…
I was thinking more we just hold a tournament on Chess.com, with EVE players as the participants.
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You ask this quite frequently, but you should be aware a couple of things:
- Often the specific ‘solutions’ you are looking for are referenced in another thread, and it would be time-consuming to keep linking them wherever the topic comes up.
- It’s not really worth typing up full solutions to EVE design issues because 1) CCP will completely ignore them anyway and 2) the forum trolls will just completely misunderstand it, then dump all their usual assumptions on it.
- The better and more specific your question is, the more likely I’ll give it a more detailed reply.
In this case, I have to assume you’re asking “I see you don’t feel the design of ganking or piracy in EVE is beneficial for the game, so what would you recommend?”. That’s the one I’ll answer, although you could as easily be asking “Why do you think EVE has invited griefers into the game and what could be done about it?”.
As I mentioned, ganking/bullying/extortion/piracy is a poor mechanic, because few benefit and many suffer. This snowballs over time as word gets around. It also leads to encouraging bad game design in that ‘pirates’ expect other people to produce value and wealth, and then line up to become their loot pinatas. This in turn leads to further bad game design like putting long, boring, repetitive travel jaunts and mining mechanics into the game, to lull players into becoming those loot pinatas through inattention.
EVE is supposed to have consequences, and it is supposed to enable players to take matters into their own hands and ‘make their own stories’. Then fine, allow players to be pirates, and then make their criminal ratings permanent (this was already outlined in another thread). Make the bounty system something where tossing another 20 million on a guys bounty actually means something. Make bounty hunter systems where you can buy a kill right for a group to hunt down a target. Make ‘retribution’ something more than “You can’t do anything, but hey, Concord will explode the guys cheapass gank ship and then he can go right back to doing the same thing over and over again”.
The key point is, as stated, if you want certain mechanics in the game, you have to design very carefully to balance those mechanics and ensure they aren’t tilted in a way that is toxic to long term game health. You don’t need to turn EVE into Candy Crush. You do need to give players decent tools to deal with the situations they will encounter.
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Well, it’s certainly doable if we ever get to make our own deadspace complexes and can arrange the various walls like squares on a chessboard. But what would each faction’s version of a piece be? I can see attack frigates being used as pawns, but what about all the others?
I mean, I’m sure people in EVE play chess in stations with normal chessboards. We could just do that at first and keep it simple.
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Fair enough.
No need, if you can’t read gibberish trash already then you haven’t played eve long enough.
But the tools are there. WTF are you on about? If you have no clue what those tools are or how to use them, that’s your problem, not a problem with the game…
If anything, you might blame the game for being quite complex, which makes it difficult to figure how to play it properly, but that’s it, and that complexity is actually part of its beauty for those that can appreciate it.
I hunt and harass gankers all the time. I’m wanted, badly, and still I somehow manage to do that more or less successfully, and also haul billions and do PvE every now and then, with my main, and yet i don’t get ganked. How could that possibly be if what you say made any sense?
The last time I was ganked was on my alt more than 1 year ago, because I made a silly mistake, I forgot to orbit the gate after jumping and wasn’t watching on that account when it happened, i.e it was entirely my fault, not a lack of tools in any way. Maybe that’s the problem here? That I’m able to see when something bad happens to me it could be because of some mistake I made and I learn to do things better, so the same doesn’t happen again, instead of asking for changes to be made to the game to make things easier for me?
You talk about suicide ganking, or griefing in general, and players “suffering”, as if it was something unavoidable that the victims could do nothing about, and as if losing ships in a spaceship shooting game was a big deal. That’s total ■■■■■■■■. All that danger and fear is actually part of what makes the game deep and interesting, but you need of course to be willing to make the effort to learn to deal with that, so you may enjoy the game the way it is. Again, that you cannot appreciate that is your problem, not a problem with the game.
And just to be clear, I could very well be ganked right after posting this, or tomorrow, or any other day in the near future, and that would still make no difference to anything I’m saying…
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The problem is that either your reading comprehension isn’t that good, or you’re much better at jumping to conclusions than understanding other people’s points.
- Not asking for any changes to make things easier.
- Don’t have a problem with ganking, been in the game over 10 years, ganked never.
- There is a difference between ‘avoiding being ganked’ and having tools to deal with gankers.
Not that it was relevant to this topic, but I personally don’t feel that ganking or griefing or bullying is a major problem in EVE. What it is is a small, persistent problem, that has certain long term effects that aren’t good for the game.
Aoviding being ganked is one thing. We have methods for that. Most of those methods aren’t apparent to newer players, and most of them only become clear after you’ve been ganked once or twice and start griping about it, then people tell you to do X and Y and Z. Or you google it, whatever.
Tools to effectively deal with gankers are tools that allow you to act against the ganker rather than merely avoid them or make yourself a low-priority target. That gives an aggrieved player some feeling of agency, some feeling of control, and that alleviates a significant portion of the frustration a typical player will experience after being ganked.
It also creates further interaction and career opportunities as “bounty hunter” and “enforcer” roles become viable in the game.
The fact that you do a thing does not mean the game supports that thing. EVE needs a substantial playerbase to stay in business, one that is satisfied enough to fork over cash rather than play free. If the tools aren’t there for average players then pointing out that a few players manage it anyway is useless.
What did you say that I didn’t comprehend and/or what conclusions did I jump to that weren’t warranted? None of the three examples you provided are a case of either…
Oh, no… You’re only asking for some things to have better game “support”…
But I was actually referring to many players in general (not necessarily you in particular) having that attitude being the actual problem, i.e. that you’re wrong when you pretend that the “suffering” is a problem with the game, when it’s actually a problem with those players…
Oh, no, you don’t have a problem with ganking… It’s only with the “suffering” that ganking causes and the continuous feed of victims that gankers need to satisfy their needs that you have a problem with…
What do you mean “deal with gankers”? For starters, avoiding to be ganked is dealing with gankers, but if what you mean is actually fighting them, I was referring to that too. Actually, that’s precisely what I do all the time…
So, again, what exactly did I not understand that you said or what conclusion did I jump to that wasn’t warranted here?
I don’t care how big or small you think the “problem” is. I only care that what you say about that “problem” is plain wrong and misleading.
I was referring to that too. Again, the tools for that are there, I do that all the time, so I know what I’m talking about, which you don’t seem to…
So what? How is this relevant to anything being discussed? You’re not asking for something to have better game “support” here, are you?
And this is relevant to anything being discussed exactly how? I mean, if you’re going to use that to ask for any changes to be made to the game, or for whatever other purpose, you better make it clear what exactly it is that you’re proposing (not mere vague wishes) AND have some data (not mere subjective perceptions) you may show us that supports your claims.
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A third possibility is that Knowledgeminer is just better at the game, and you would be better if you would listen to him, instead of pretending you have valid counter-arguments.
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Of course you do. You want tools for the ganked to deal with gankers.
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It’s okay, I’m used to the troll crowd not being able to comprehend new ideas. They’re not particularly deep.
For the hard of thinking, you might try getting a clue. Nothing I suggested makes things easier. It doesn’t protect anyone from getting ganked. It doesn’t stop gankers from ganking anyone they choose to. It doesn’t eliminate or restrict piracy or ganking or extortion or any of the other fun, social activities engaged in by those who feel they are entitled to exploit the efforts of others.
They increase consequences for your actions. They make actions have meaning. They increase opportunities for inter-player conflict. They reduce the frustration a gankee might feel by enabling them to take some sort of action that might have some retributive effect, even if they aren’t particularly interested in dropping their current game plan and switching to a PvP plan just to hunt down some wanker in a gank ship.
Oh and btw, the chest-beating about “I hunt gankers all the time!” - looks to me like you kill the same half-dozen losers over and over again in the same system. Not really what I’d call a game-wide design approach for increasing player options.
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Carebear Suggestion #315:
“To defeat gankers, we should be able to buy and sell their killrights.”
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I’m used to the whining crowd thinking that the things they don’t understand about the game are some game design flaw, and that it’s everybody else that disagrees with them who doesn’t comprehend the ideas they propose to “fix” the game and/or is trolling.
For the hard of thinking, you might try getting a clue that asking for game “support” and “tools to effectively deal with gankers” is asking for something to be made easier, namely fighting the gankers.
For the hard of thinking, you might try getting a clue that even if it was true that you’re not asking for any of the other things you say you’re not asking for, that doesn’t change the fact that you are asking for something else you don’t mention there to be made easier, and that would have an impact on the things you say you don’t want to change…
For the hard of thinking, you might try getting a clue that, again, the tools you’re asking for do exist already. That you have no clue what those tools are or how to properly use them is your problem, not a problem with the game…
You have no idea what you’re talking about and it shows…
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You did, actually.
Feel free to point out how better criminal flags and tools to hunt or bounty gankers “makes things easier” for anyone. I can see that it might make things harder for gankers, and that could be a problem for the kind of crappy fake-PvPers who hide behind Concord’s skirts in high sec. Don’t you think these professed “hard core” PvPers can handle it if people start shooting back at them? Obviously not.
As for not “having any idea what I’m talking about”, in the past two months you’ve killed:
- Tenskawatawa 5 times
- Zee mac 5 times
- dunow why 8 times
- Solstice Projekt 9 times
- Lilith Deathkitten 4 times
- Knuf aknayna 11 times
- Kenta bento box and several others twice
In each case using a Bhaalgorn or a Loki against ships with a fraction of the firepower and tank. Pretty much all those kills in Hek or Deltole. These repeat kills make up ~ 90% of your kills in that period. So yeah, as said, shooting weak fish in a very small barrel with an elephant gun.
Hardly what I’d call a general approach to putting useable tools in the hands of the average player. I can see why you’d be terrified of enabling better PvPers to come looking for you though.
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You seem a bit hostile. Is anybody else getting that vibe?
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