I fairly regularly get called hostile, abrasive, caustic, toxic on these forums. Generally it’s by code and other pretenders who’ve spent so long hiding behind the skirts of Concord in high sec, ganking weak targets that can’t fight back, that they find the simple presentation of facts and ideas in a forum to be threatening and harsh to deal with.
It’s almost like they’ve never faced a challenge before and don’t quite know how to deal with it.
You keep using that phrase: “hiding behind the skirts of Concord.” What do you mean by that?
Gankers in gank ships are flying cheap ships that make it uneconomical to kill them (unless they are flagged or low enough security rating). For the most part, it means they can fly around in high sec in perfect safety, looking for a target where the situation and the economics favor them, without risk of themselves being attacked.
The bounty system is a joke, especially in a cheap gank ship, so that’s not relevant. Basically, for most of the ones I have seen, it means they can safely hunt weak targets while Concord protects them from being hunted in return.
There are a few who wander around tagged or low standings, but those are often bait.
I feel having a criminal tag be tied to security status would provide for a fighting chance to proactively fight ganks and gankers (and create content for pvp. That IS what we want, isn’t it?) -5 and lower, criminal and openly hunted with CONCORD’s blessing.
There’s an adage I live by - if told once, it’s their problem. If told twice, it’s my problem.
No further comment.
You could try putting the links in a Google doc? That’s what I do, at least.
Right on the first, semi-right on the second. I think that any game which lets players have the kind of freedom EvE allows us will attract griefers. The G.I.F.T. is basically a fact of life at this point.
I don’t really see how you arrived at this conclusion, though I agree that travel and mining can be pretty boring.
Apart from the permanent criminal ratings this all sounds fine to me.
I think you’re right about this, but with one exception: corps that can’t be wardecced. AFAIK, gankers that hide in NPC corps or corps without structures are basically immune to preemptive strikes or meaningful retaliation. If I’m wrong, please explain how.
This sounds reasonable enough.
I’d like to be able to do this, it sounds like fun.
What’s wrong with that? Players going bounty-hunting sounds like it would be a good thing.
It would also make things easier for people who want to hunt gankers, and I still don’t see how ganking is “fake” PvP. Even if it’s a complete mismatch, attacking or competing with other players is still PvP.
I think she has a point. Until the ganker does something that flags them as a criminal, anyone who wants to intercept them can’t attack them, and once the ganker opens fire CONCORD will smash them so there’s really no point in trying hunt them.
Not sure if I understand you correctly. Do you mean that if you could shoot gankers with -5 and lower without CONCORD interaction then people would have a fighting chance? Please correct me if I understood that wrong.
Feel free to point out what “better” means here, provide a concrete example that illustrates what exactly it is that you’re proposing, and the answer to that question will become immediately clear even to you.
ROFL. You don’t know a thing about the gankers either. And you don’t see a problem making a fool of yourself with wrong assumptions about everything and everyone all the time. It’s truly amazing.
You don’t see how this does actually prove how clueless you are, do you?
Hint: I don’t post my kills to zKill unless made with a KR I had previously asked for. And you would also need to be able to understand how the circumstances under which those kills happen are relevant. Moreover, even if you got those two things right, which you’re clearly incapable of, you would still not be getting the full picture…
But the really funny thing here is that quite a few players reading this, some of them gankers themselves, do know the things that you’re missing, and you don’t even realise how you’re making a fool of yourself every time…
You cannot see a thing. You can only make wrong assumptions about everything and everyone all the time. That’s the only thing you’re capable of.
This is wrong, indeed. There are a couple things that make preemptive strikes possible.
One is loss of security status when it drops below -5, which is the case for some gankers, but not others, though.
The other is kill rights, which is a WAY underused feature that many players simply don’t know how to use properly. I make heavy use of those, however, and actively ask victims of the gankers I hunt/harass for KRs on them. They’re really useful against gankers that have higher than -5 sec status IF (big if) you know how to use them.
As to meaningful retaliation, if you’re talking about the victim, it all happens so fast that it isn’t really an option for him/her. Retaliation, however, is possible in a broader sense by externally interfering with the gank to try to make it fail. That’s one of the things that anti-gankers like me (and others out there, I’m by no means the only one) do.
Really? Well, consider me educated. Have you made a post explaining how killrights work so that the rest of us could learn from your expertise, and if not, will you?
Are you surprised about that?
FFS! Learn how to play the game.
No Go away
No, I haven’t, but you’re right that it might be a good idea, so I’ll probably follow your suggestion and write one.
That’s the idea, yea. If they’re caught in-system, they could be hunted without CONCORD intercession.
If that’s already a game mechanics, then disregard because I’m an idiot.
ROFL. I was wondering the same as @Karak_Terrel because your post made no sense, but thought you might be being sarcastic there or something. Kudos to him for asking for clarification. 
If you unlawfully agress someone in highsec, this person receives a killright on your character that lasts 30 days. It does not matter if the ship explodes, the aggression alone generates the killright.
The person receiving the killright can now activate it at any time as many times he/she wants in which case the criminal immediately receives a suspect flag for 15 min and is therefore freely attackable by everyone. If the ship of the criminal explodes while the killright was activated it will be used up.
In addition to that a kill right can be made available to a character, a corporation, an alliance or public for a set fee. The fee has to be payd on activation.
People will often complain that killrights are useless against gankers that are -5 and lower. This is obviously true, but the reason why it is true is because they can be attacked by anyone at any time without CONCORD intervention anyway. So it is only useless because a much harsher game mechanic already exists against the gankers, which makes the complaints rather silly.
Another complaint about the uselessness of killrights stems from the fact that gankers use ships they are willing to lose anyway. Or because they use cheap ships (which isn’t always true, a gank Talos is way over 100mil ISK). This whole criticism is completely silly in my opinion. Everyone can chose what to undock and risk, yet somehow it is portrait as “unfair” if gankers make the conscious decision to minimize their risk an losses and the gankee is somehow not supposed to do that.
Yes, that is already the case. With -5 and lower anyone can shoot you at any time without CONCORD interaction. Even worse, the Faction Police NPCs will hunt them, so the can never be in one place for longer than ~20s without Facpo warping in, tackling and eventually killing their ships.
So you don’t even have to kill the gankers. You could just camp a gate with a fast tackler and just warpdisrupt them until Facpo comes and kills them.
So you see, those mechanics are already in place, they even go further than you asked for. Yet still people complain it is not enough. Because they don’t actually want to “fight back”, which they already could. They want ganking gone. Of course they don’t say it this way, but as long as it is still feasable and not so inconvenient and one-sided that no one would ever think about risking to attack anyone it will not be good enough for them.
I see ganking as a viable part of the game. It’s akin to modern piracy. Small boats loaded with bandits carrying RPG’s hijacking big juicy tankers. Small risk of impactful material loses for a big reward. While there are players that want that aspect of the game gone, I think a healthier approach would be a more proactive one. In the sense that, instead of waiting to be jumped by a known ganker to be able to react without CONCORD repercussions, a ganker could be ganked themself without penalty.
To be honest, I’d like to see CONCORD taken out of the whole equation. I realize it was once meant as a deterrent againt shenanigans in hisec, but it’s plain to see that that deterrent doesn’t matter to gankers when their entire doctrine is built around disposable 4mil isk catalysts.
Yeah, sorry, but imaginary kills you made against imaginary gankers who also aren’t on zKill aren’t really something I can refer to. I’ll just go ahead and use the publicly available data, which says you use expensive high-end ships to make repeat weaksauce kills against paperthin gankfit targets.
Nothing at all wrong with that, if that’s entertaining for you then fire away. I mean, gankers getting ganked, what’s not to like? However a 10 year vet using KRs and Lokis to gank a handful of players in weak ships isn’t really what I’d call “tools for the average player”.
At any rate, enough off-topicness from me on this. OP’s post was about the fact that more than a few people of the ‘ganking’ persuasion are using a relatively cheap, risk-free mechanic to harass and annoy other players simply because griefing gets them off.
The point of my original replies was to say that, one player-retention-friendly way of dealing with griefing, is to give gank/griefing targets some sort of standardized tools so they can at least feel like they have an option for recourse that is at least slightly effective.
“I buy killrights and use a Loki/Bhaalgorn and 10 years of SP to kill destroyers” is not that tool.