@Destiny_Corrupted Thank you for making my point. You can do it way better than I ever could.
RESPECT
the people who are not hard enough for eve online are those who get killed in ahbazon and going off on it. when asked what they lost you read 'the nasty killed my Impairor"
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Such as?
There are only so many variations of PvE sites you can really spam everywhere and most of the inspace content is made by players interacting with other players, lots of players these days are just risk averse
Yeah that really didnât work and wonât likely be making a comeback in regards to a direct EVE connection i would suspect, atleast going by the last couple of versions of the dust reboot we saw
The issue with planet side interactions is that there are far more planets than there are solar systems ingame, so either youâre not interacting on a specific planet or youâll still rarely find anyone
Players get players in to space for the most part, again there are only so many PvE sites you can spam before they become complete clones of each other, weâve already ruled out planetside interactions and asteroids are just a mining resource in EVE, canât really interact with them in that regard lol
Crazy what though? we already have j-space which covers special effects on ships, what sort of âcrazyâ do you think we are missing exactly?
But, to do what exactly, youâre spitballing suggestions but not actually providing a way you think it would actually ADD anything, cool your NPCâs direct you to complete a task, which is what they already do when it comes to missions and epic arcs, outside of them telling you to go to x and do x what are you expecting that to add?
And yet all the experiments to try adding other stuff failed, its called trying to be a jack of all trades
Its called breaking people in to the game, you start small, you learn the differences between the ship classes as you scale up, the advantages and disadvantages of bigger ships, nobody learns if they jump straight in to a battleship
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I donât know why battleships keep being brought up. No one suggested that new players should be able to get into battleships and if the new player has some brains he himself wouldnât want to fly a battleship two days into the game.
But the argument is lazy.
There isnât just ships in EVE. There are also modules, and a lot of modules can be fitted onto destroyers and corvettes. A smart new player would want upgraded modules before heâd want a bigger ship.
And letâs say some new player does get into a Battleship two days into the game - whatâs the problem? Who wouldnât want to blow up his nice new shiny battleship and teach him a lesson he wouldnât soon forget?
Thatâs odd. I donât see a single CCP advert that says â Come join our great mining simulatorâ. It is advertised as a PvP/PvE game. You knowâŚfighting and pew pew and stuff. Is there an advert that says â come watch Netflix for 3 hours while you grind asteroids with a laser â ? I must have missed that one.
New player can be flying a 350-400 DPS Gnosis within 6 days if Omega and 12 days if Alpha. I know. I have done it.
So what do you propose ? Whatâs the alternative ?
Because some people mistakenly equate big ships with âendgameâ
Their complaint is that people have to spend ages skilling up through smaller ships to get to what they deem to be âfunâ ships and content, i learned long ago that iâm not a fan of larger ships and that my personal âendgameâ is smaller ships, mostly covert ops
Giving new players too many options is bad, its too large an info dump all at once, which is why the progression system is built the way it is in pretty much any game, start small and work your way up, the only difference being that in those games getting bigger is always the goal because youâre increasing numbers, EVE doesnât follow that same design structure, every ship has its place
And here we get to the actual crux of the issue, these are few and far between these days, lots of people want to play WoW in space because âMake number go up get strongâ, couple that with the culture of instant gratification and you get a playerbase that itself is unsuited to the game
The least I would propose is that an Omega account should come with an ISK income. After all, the Omega subscription ( for a 3 monthly renewal ) works out at around 1.5b ISK a month if you convert the subscription to ISK. Surely it is not beyond the bounds of possibility that 50m or 100m a month of that be returned to the player in the form of a monthly ISK income.
Noob Omegas are paying 1.5bn ISK a month for a game that begrudges them 1m ISK an hour in a Venture.
It does, its called gameplay time in omega ships which generate more income
The fun isnât necessarily in big ships. Iâm like you, I like small ships, I love destroyers and corvettes.
Itâs already too large an info dump as it is. The new player soon learns that all the serious info is to be found external to the game, online in a slew of different websites that each hold pieces of the puzzle so 700mb of info or 1.2Gig of info isnât so much tougher to digest for someone who likes the game and wants to learn.
Iâm not sure that I want to denigrate a whole segment of the world population by saying that most of them just donât think straight and only want to play games to make numbers go up as quickly as possible. Iâm sure there are a lot of people like that but then what, let them cut their teeth on EVE Online and find out how different this game is from the others, instant gratification ones.
I think itâs pretty inconsiderate to judge people based on generalities and itâs rather arrogant to think that only a certain demographic has the stuff to play EVE and enjoy it.
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Rorquals, capitals, Trig invasion, SCC sites, resource redistribution, structures, new PVE, instances, bad communication, anoms, ESS, ansiblex, no new missions despite the capabilities being there and most players doing missions, etc pp. Almost everything with big implications for the game that CCP touched turned into a turd in the last 8 years.
It worked well. People engaged with it. What hampered the success were external decisions and lack of polish and scope.
CCP is really good at handing people content via the agency. One type of interaction on planets can be just like that: widely broadcasted situations or activities. For other things itâs perfectly find to not have a ton of people to jump on you right away or at all. Thatâs called variety and intriguing experiences where you donât know what happens. You donât need to have a crapload of people piling onto you to have engaging and fun experiences on a planet or anywhere.
Players do what CCP gives them to do. More PVEVP in space can take a boatload of different shapes or forms. CCP has already demonstrated that they can create all sorts of different encounters and environments. Even things like NPC fleets engaging in battles completely without player involvement and players only retroactively noticed the battle, wondered what was going on there, CCP wondered what was going on there, and then things became clear and all the people involved had just witnessed truly organic, unscripted PVE. Itâs a shame that CCP removed this unintended sideeffect-feature.
Thatâs no where near the same.
Thatâs nowhere near the same thing. But speaking of missions, itâs still utterly regrettable that missions are still completely sterile and removed from anything. Regardless of how many Blockades you kill or how many Damsels you rescue, nothing ever changes. Same goes for anomalies and DED complexes. After 20 years they are still completely separate from the universe, because they affect nothing. That is something that should really change and thatâs something that would engage players with the universe.
Elite has not failed, STar Citizens has not failed (despite the limited scope, you can fly spaceships and go on planets and stations just fine), NMS has not failed either. The same concepts have not failed in EVE either. Everyone was amazed by how cool Dust looked when it was announced. Everyone was amazed by the CQ and the potential it promised. The reason why these things failed are not the players but CCPâs long-standing, utter incompetence to code and design and develop properly.
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@Princess_Valloris I wouldnât call it arrogant to think that only a certain demographic has the stuff to play EvE, any more than it is arrogant to think, or say, or believe, that only a certain demographic has the stuff to play chess or Go. Sure, everyone is equipped to move the pieces, but not to make every move meaningful and purposeful. Thatâs just the way things are. Thereâs nothing wrong with coining a game âelitistâ or âhardcoreâ if the game, however appealing it may be, only selects a small number of players.
How the demographic itself shifts in its ability to cope with challenges has likely more to do with external factors than innate abilities, shrinking the number of potentially successful players. Just a thought.
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We canât forget the MASSIVE competition of subscription services that EVE has to compete with.
When the economy goes downhill? What is the first to go? Subscription services. Leisure stuff such as streaming, videogames, ad free programs, grocery store memberships/shoppers clubs, etc.
Any argument based on âoh newer players only want instant gratificationâ is always the elitest and lazy argument. An excuse to not improve things to get more new people. It also really just makes me think âthatâs nice gramps, time for your medication and a nap.â
There are newer and younger players who would enjoy eve and get into it. Eve however has a lot of aged things in it (many of which the current player base has known was garbage for fun since it started.). Pve missions and ratting tend to be ungodly boring, same with mining. Itâs not about instant gratification so much as just old and boring game design for what you are actually doing in game.
While the npe is better than what we used to do for initiating new people, I donât think it trains people in some key points well enough. Things like treating ships like ammo, what a suicide gank is and how to protect yourself from it, how to get into pvp and what other lower security space is like and how to get into it.
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Authoring a few new missions isnât going to really add much they will still be super basic and just farmed like the current ones, at which point youâll complain you donât have any new missions to do, missions arenât the end goal they are a stepping stone to something else
A handful of people interacting with it doesnât make it a success lol
Like what though?
We have already established that dust isnât likely to have any EVE related integrations in the future, so what NPC related activities do you think are actually things you would want that arenât going to still amount to âgo to place and shoot xâ or âgo to place and collect/deliver xâ
That wouldnât really add anything it would just you more generic boring content you would get bored of rapidly
No, trigs still shoot each other and other entities all the time, NPCâs shooting each other also isnât adding anything and most of the time is going to go entirely un-noticed until someone just finds some free loot, while is interesting to watch a couple of times its actually not really that engaging
So what crazy are you expecting, you seem to have skipped over that part, come up with some ideas
Thats by design, its super low level minimal risk PvE for people to cut their teeth on and earn some ISK, they arenât meant to be a challenge nor are they really designed to impact other players, its sidequest content
And what are you expecting to change? NPCâs arenât suddenly going to start changing the face of the game over a bunch of pointless side content, you seem to be expecting a little much here, remember, players are the main source of content in this game
Right, but in what way do you think random side content should impact the universe?
Oh right, that game with instanced zones where you can entirely opt out of PvE, the WoW in space nobody really talks about anymore? the game with a peak steam usercount of 3k?
https://steamdb.info/app/359320/charts/
That elite? yeah seems to be doing amazing
Entirely different game, its also not finished and will likely never actually see a full release, the guy has no real direction and again, its falling in to the trap of âjack of all trades, master of noneâ, its trying to do everything and failing at making an actual good game
Why would anyone care about what is for the most part a single player game? that being said, 9k PCU peak for NMS on steam
https://steamdb.info/app/275850/charts/
Nah everyone was interested in dust then realised its a fairly generic shooter which really only appealed to EVE players, it never really gained any traction and it died as a result, if people were engaging with it they would have kept it alive
And WiS never had any real potential, i mean youâre welcome to think that but you know deep down it would have been pointless window dressing, there is no activity in EVE that isnât hampered by having to walk around, every basic task would have taken so much longer to perform, want to accept a quest, gotta walk to your agent, want to buy a new module, gotta walk to the market and find the right vendor, want to brose contracts, gotta go find the correct terminal for that
And thats before you get to the issues of instancing all those stations, most would be entirely empty outside of places like J4-4 and people would end up disabling it because they want to get things done in a quick efficient manner
People spitball that they could add minigames and other pointless fluff but forget those are mostly going to be pointless in a game people can easily alt-tab out of to do meaningful things while they wait, yes the die hard RP crowd would probably love it but most gamers arenât going to care or arenât going to use it so it would have ultimately just ended up costing more time and money than it was worth
Hardly, CCPâs skill has nothing to do with players not actually engaging with those systems, i get that you want a scapegoat and you want to blame CCP for everything wrong with the game, but that doesnât change the facts, those ideas just wouldnât have been sustainable and wouldnât have added enough to the game for them to really justify their own existence
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So prove it wrong
News at 11, tedious tasks are infact tedious
Well no â â â â , go play any MMO and youâll find those exact same tasks to be boring as hell
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Now that I read you I realize something.
Every EVE player knows that itâs a PvP game. The long-time players and members of this forum take delight in reminding the uninitiated that EVE is a PvP game before it is anything else.
Yet, the âtutorialâ and all the career agents do not mention it once. Whatâs more, the tutorial encourages the player to rather go for the PvE content like mining and ratting without hinting that attacking other players is actually what EVE is about.
There is a disconnect between a new playerâs introduction to the game and what the game is really about. Just starting new players in the most secure areas of the cluster is a disservice. It tells new players that âhisec is safeâ while nothing could be further from the truth.
I think new players should be spawned in Nullsec and let them swim or sink. That would be more entertaining than undocking in parts of space where âgriefingâ isnât allowed.
If there is to be hand-holding, make it what the game is really about.
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Itâs already proven wrong? Other games (yes even âhardcoreâ ones) can get new players, just not eve. Really you need to prove it right and good luck with that, youâd have to actually get improvements done to the npe and pve.
As to your second reply. So whatâs your point? That we should do nothing about it? Thatâs quite defeating yourself before you even start of you.
Where?
Cite your sources
Because all i see is people complaining about having to wait for SP and the super casual games exploding in popularity, everything i see points exactly to instant gratification being a driving factor in gaming
If you have something that demonstrates otherwise i would like to see it
There really isnât anything you can do about it, a tedious task will always be tedious, its super basic resource harvesting, its not going to be flashy or entertaining, its like complaining that being a garbageman is boring and tedious, its like complaining that stacking shelves in walmart is boring and tedious
Thats just the way some things are
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