Are your seriously comparing loss in csgo to loss in Eve?
Is it actually challenging from a gameplay perspective, or is the challenge more the time investment / hunting targets?
Is it truly this? Or is there more investment required, ie. Forming / joining groups who do it, multiboxing enough accounts, etc, to pull it off that make it uncommon? How may accounts do you need to gank a freighter / bling marauder?
Iām genuinely curious because it does seem relatively easy to do with enough pilots
Then get enough pilots and show everyone how easy it is.
Iām actually asking, donāt think i have enough time to stalk prey like that, coordinate etc
Neither do all the other people that think it is āeasyā.
I donāt gank. So I cannot give you the knowledge you seek. But I do have a related question: Have you ever tried to hunt? In low sec, null sec, or WH space? Was it easy?
Anyone know where can you get some information of what the CSM has accomplished so far? What issues they have raised, which issues are pending, which ones are resolved? Things like that 
Thanks
I guess the best bet is to ask @Brisc_Rubal and @Mike_Azariah they seem to be the most active on the forums.
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Donāt ask me, thatās Mikeās job.
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Have you been following my csm update videos, @Daim_Is ? Doing a āraised/pending/resolvedā is not something that I plan on doing as it would too easily tread into NDA space.
We have been very active in the meetings that we have with teams from CCP but as some of the content of the meetings deal with future releases I cannot say what we argued for or against.
My apologies but you will not be getting a ticket status from me in regards to issues that the CSM is dealing with.
m
Thanks
Seems like the answer is Jita Park - EVE Online Forums
Itās not mind bogglingly hardā¦but then I would not say it was āeasyā either. Iāve ganked in groups of 4 or so, which is harder because you canāt really afford for anyone to miss. The FC will usually decide if there is enough DPS, but it may be a pretty close thing if you need 4 Catalysts and if a single one misses you donāt have enough. Ideally one should arrive within range of the target, but that can be foiled by asteroids being in the way and other factors. Catalysts have a pretty short rangeā¦a few km or so. Also the fleet may not be specifically aligned on the targetā¦so although Catalysts do align quite fast the fleet may not all arrive at exactly the same time. You have literally seconds to actā¦and canāt afford to fumble anything.
CCP isnāt stupid, The CSM are not Stupid people, However, they are people with a certain desire for how they want to play the game or think it should be played. They have no real concern for what is best for EvE as a game or the players who play it.
How do I know this? Because fixing EvE would be exceedingly easy, as players overwhelmingly leave for 3 reasons and 3 reasons only. Of which if simple tweaks were made to certain systems and mechanics, would see returning players by the thousands and new players by the thousands.
However these changes, target the minority of player types specifically, who are on said CSM, and Many who work for CCP itself who play the game.
So what are these 3 changes? Well lets go over that:
Q. Why do players leave EvE?
- Toxic Behavior, but primarily Ganking.
- Industry changes, (while some of these were good more have been bad).
- Theā¦ let us sayā¦ hardcore introduction to the worst humanity has to offer on a steep learning curve. Makes āMostā players who try EvE goā¦ holy ā ā ā ā thatās darkā¦ nope not for me.
So what are the easy fixes for the above? Iām glad you asked.
A.
Problem Number One:
Ganking, Specifically related to Highsec ganking, where Ganking primary occurs.
While I will state that this is a necessaryās part of EvE, it unfortunately does not fall in line with the EvE Motto, āEvEā is about Consequences. Because while there is most definitely a consequence for the one being ganked, when you calculate the āRiskā vs āRewardā for the āGankerā, You arrive at the conclusion that mechanically speaking, Financially speaking, and mentally speaking, There is 0 nada, nothing, as a consequence which occurs to make that ganker goā¦ You know what maybe I autta not do that anymore.
However the person being ganked, does in fact have the āyou knowā that was probably a bad idea.
~ The person being ganked loses years of stuff, or maybe just days or weeks, time effort energy, the loss has a real impact and substantial real value in terms of both Mental, and Economical. And must now face days weeks and months of a reset in their now wasted play time.
~ The Ganker suffers a ship loss, which they had already calculated into their financial gain, from the loss and is back at it 5 minuets to 10 minuets later.
*** For the Ganker there is no loss, No consequence, only a business transaction. I give concord these 1.2 Billion in BCs, I get 8 Billion in return, every hour or so. Etc. ---- This is not Eve. This is not in line with in EvE there are consequences for your actions.
You can not have a system, which benefits only those who are criminal. And expect the vast majority of people to just goā¦ Yea that sounds reasonable.
So how do we resolve the above?
Well the answer is quite simple.
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If you gank somone in highsec, Your security status is imediately reduced based on the value of what you have killed, but no less then a minimum, of -3. (IE if you were at +5. Your will go down to 2. For example Ganking a shiny Mining ship twice might just get you a negative status of -1, Fairly easy to get back to 0. But lets say you ganked a Freighter carrying billions of ISk worth of stuff.
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If this reduction puts you into a Negative security status, Concord not only kills your ship but will POD you as well.
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If the action causes concord to POD you, You will respawn in the nearest lowsec system which is not a dead end, with an available mission agent. You will be locked out of highsec, until you are able to raise your sec status, above 0.
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To prevent a loophole, Character with Negative Security statusās will not be able to be Biomassed or deleted from the account.
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Concord response times need to be cut in half. 15 seconds in a .7 is laughable (for example).
- For the example of the freighter gank:
While your alt can pick up the loot, anyone in your fleet who caused any damage to the ship, scanned it, Webbed it or otherwise āactivelyā participated in the gank, is now -10 sec status, and in lowsec locked out of highsec until you get back to 0.
This gives The ganker the ability to continue to gank, while simultaneously, giving the Ganker and actual Consequence which like their victim, they will feel and have to deal with.
Addendum - You could also add an actual Ransome function (For Low and Null, and āAT WARā in highsec" Only, where the engaging player would have the āOptionā once they damaged the ship (lowsec and null) send an official Ransome request with an ISK demand. A normal ganker ganking someone in highsec would not have this option because upon initiating combatā¦ here comes concord.
A window would pop up for the victim (kind of like the chat box invitation etc), and the player would have 3 minuets to respond by accepting to pay the ISK requested. The ship during this period would become immune to damage. If the player declinedā¦ well then the battle continues. If he or she however accepts, then that ship is now immune to all forms of pvp for 5-15, minuets ( in pirate slang this is called āParlayā). However that ship can ONLY Warp, Jump Gates, and Dock. It can not do anything else.
This function would ensure that the player being ganked, knew the ransom would be honored. And the people would not be able to blow their ship up and take their money as well. Thus, allowing old school pirating back into eve.
B.
Industry:
Some of the industry changes were good, but if āAā was implemented, would have been unnecessary (Some of the ship changes to make barges and exhumers harder to gank).
The main issue comes from the Ore distribution, and moon goo changes.
~ Everyone can agree that the current Ore distribution is horrible when combined with the removal of special ore spawning anomalies and restriction there of from highsec low sec, and even null, which provided limited contested access to these much needed ores unavailable in said regions by default now.
All of these changes to the ores combined, did not encourage people to go to low or null, Both are still empty with 80% of people residing in highsec. This is because of psychological reasons, not economical ones.
CCPā¦ Most humans. Do not like conflict. And would rather live in a shitty semi safe area, then engage in conflict for better materials (Or find ways around the system). Which is why people mine veldspar or other low end materials, and sell it for the high end ones they need. No one, mines in lowsec except on the rare occasion when a system is dead for hours. Because that is 100% a deathtrap. And most people are not that stupid. Plus its just easier to mine low end materials and in fact more profitable over time, because of the very economic changes, your changes to industry have caused.
Your industry Ore changes did the exact opposite, of what you were hoping they would do.
People will play where and how they want to play. If you want to encourage people to take risks and do dangerous things, you have to make it worth their while to do so without making it so impossible due to other player behavior that even the attempt is pointless for most.
~ The restricting of Wormhole, Highsec and lowsec moons to lower end minerals, did not help the economy. It simply put the t-2 production in the hands of the largest most powerful nullsec alliances. Which I am fairly certain they are not complaining about, but this is about whatās best for EvE as a whole, Not whatās best for your Nullsec Alliance.
This imbalance, made most Highsec and even lowsec Moon mining a pintless and useless endeavor, because even if by some miracle you find a decent moon in lowsec, the mechanics governing lowsec means that a nearby nullsec alliance can just hot drop you and take it with little to no resistance in comparative force capabilities.
So how do we solve B?
Well again, in a very easy and simple way:
- Ore:
Anomalies will be added back to highsec, Low and Null, which contain the minerals not found in their security belt (High low null). These anomolies will not be descrimitory at all and completely random. IE:
- Isogen, Noxyium, Megacyte and Morphite and Zydrine etc, can apear in Highsec
- Megacyte, Zydrine, Morphite, Veldspar, Pyrite, can appear in Lowsec
- All Minerals can appear in Null Anomalies (And Wormholes).
- Moons:
Moonsā¦ will once again be reshuffled, however this time all restrictions on where they can appear will be removed. This means that all mineral types can appear everywhere in every sector of eve including wormholes.
This will allow true engagement over moons for every player. You want highseccers to pvp? Give them something to PvP over instead of taking stuff away. The same logic applies to the ore solution above. In highsec even if a null/low alliance wants the moon they are limited to subcaps. Like everyone else thus evening the playing field.
C. The learning curve of Eve.
Many steps and strides have been taken over the years to fix this and make the game more user friendly. However the one aspect of the learning curve that always seems to be intentionally ignore is the depravity of some of the denizens that populate Eve.
While this factor is an integral part of EvE, simultaneously, it must be controlled (which it currently isnāt). There are some things in Eve which while possible, serve no content purpose other then driving people away from the game. Scamming is one of these things, and is an age old tradition I grant you. Betrayal, is another which in fact does serve a purpose. However in real life while betrayal will get you shunned by everyone, because the mentality is if they betrayed them they will betray us too. And thus is exiled from society.
In eve, itās simply looked at as a game mechanic with no social consequences whatsoever because āEvE is a gameā.
This is a problem, because societies are built around culture and social structures. And while it is possible to have the dystopian society EvE is for a time. As the real world and EvE has seen, year after year, the game continues to lose players, not gain them, and continues to die.
So how to we fix this?
- Laws.
~ The problem with Eve is we have these empire spaces, which are supposedly lawful, have a culture unique to each and yes, laws. However for a capsuleer these laws are seemingly unenforced in their entirety. for the most part. While yes, there are standings loses, and shooting the police are never a good idea, the general regional laws are widely unenforced even though in a functional society they would be, even on an immortal capsuleer.
I mean your Immortal, not a wizard or sorcerer who can bend reality at the snap of a finger. Reality applies to you like anyone else. So should laws.
But how do we enforce these laws in a game? To make the society as a whole better? Iām glad you asked.
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You enforce them.
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Instead of relying of capsuleers to enforce the law themselves (which is not their job in empire space anyway), tweak the AI police in systems and make them more interactive. If someone assaults/steals/whatever someone else, the police chase them around system, fine them, create bounties, attack them etc. And harass them until they either leave the system, or pay the fine (and the fine needs to be substantial so it has an impact on the economy and the player).
Police is EvE have been around forever, but lets be real serve no current purpose, and do absolutely nothing. Obviously for this to be fun and work they would need to be weaker then concord, but very tough and powerful. You should be able to kill them, and naturally killing police would be very bad for you as a player, however in this concord will not intervein, your sec status will of course drop as you kill them, and your bounty will increase and youāll be flashy, giving other players pvp content as well.
In conclusion, these changes would completely change how EvE as a game is played and perceived and while it would remain exactly the same at its core, these changes would effectively increase the quality of life for everyone, as well as encourage players to come back to Eve, and newer players to stay.
I thought it was CCP PR department.
CCP very much does care about EVEās well being though. It is their income source. Even if they move from EVE to another game dev studio, EVEās health reflects well on their resume. They have very real life considerations and motivations for the game to do well. We as players however donāt have that vested interest in the game.
For us players, this is just a game, if EVE dies, we just go find another game. Sure it sucks that we lose all our yearās worth of pixels, some of which have thousands of dollars invested in, but we do this knowing that one day it could just go poof. Player opinions are valid, but often times we often are blinded by what benefits only us, and not the game as a whole.
All your changes would stagnate the economy of the game and cause groups of people to not move around as much. Ganking serves to limit the supply of goods in the game, otherwise things just would not get destroyed, especially PVE ships. Minerals needing to move across bands of security gives opportunities for players to interact more with each other. Interactions (both good and bad) are what drives a game.
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Wasted hundreds of hours on ZZ development? FW is under the strong assumption null biased CSM had bubbles put in since not in the plans originally.
Bubbles with no d scan or BMās countersā¦what could possibly go wrong?
Many learn in a cycle or 2 to not even use the place. Even on a clear day, there really is not much need to go here.
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can i have your isk ?
That defense of ganking is absurd. and completely intellectually dishonest.
NO economic system on the entire planet, relies on piracy, destruction, and criminal theft and murder to balance itself. In fact it is a direct threat to economic prosperity in ALL economic systems. And EvEās Economic systems are based on the real world. Itās called an Economic simulator for a reason.
Please stop being intellectually dishonest. Some of here actually understand how economies function. You want to balance an economy, you create finance sinks. Ganking when taken from an economic perspective is not a sink even remotely large enough to make a scratch on the economy in any way whatsoever.
In a world of literally quadrillions of ISK which pass through the markets and the hands of players every single ādayā. A few freighter and ship losses to ganks has absolutely 0, Nada, No effect AT ALL. ON the EvE economy.
However what it does do. Is make people quit the game and never come back. And while the economy may be quadrillions, a few 100 to a few 1000 players leaving every year, takes it toll in FAR FAR more damaging ways.
I would rather lose 1000 Gankers and Toxic individuals, and gain 10,000 Carebears. Why? Because the more people in eve the more content for everyone. Reguardless of what they are doing.
So if implementing any of this makes the population grow, I will gladly sacrifice some of the more degenerate psychopaths.
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You are quite wrong (as always).
The real world economy is absolutely dependent upon destruction. If there were no destruction, the cost of items would drop to zero, which would be nice (if you are a poor), but it doesnāt make for much of a game when everyone is in a blinged out Titan.
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You are twisting my words.
You are fully aware we are talking about Piracy, Murder, and Theft. Which is illegal in ALL prosperous economic structures on the planet.
Were not talking about āWaste based Economicsā, or the destruction of items to promote industries. As I said before, Ganking does not facilitate this because it only happens to about or less then 10% of the population at any given time. So it literally has a null effect on the overall economics.
Again, please stop being intellectually dishonest.