It may be a strawman, but it’s your strawman. You are the one saying that AFK mining is bad and you are the one saying that making mining more active is “A poor solution”.
No, I said a solution that only adds extra clicks for the sake of it is a poor solution.
That is not the same as saying making mining more active is a poor solution, as you can make things more active without requiring more clicks in some ways, and you can make those clicks have meaning. “Haul from Drop off hold to Ore hold in same ship” has no meaning at all.
having meaning behind clicks is kind of vague, most of eve is filled with more or less meaningless clicks.
When I run missions, I click on a target and click to attack. When I mine, I click on a target and click to attack. Same basic function with the same level of meaning in my opinion.
If you are talking about adding something along the lines of the mini-game from hacking, where the order and location of your clicks matter, then you are adding additional clicks to mining to make it more meaningful while not doing anything to any other part of the game. That in my opinion is a little one sided.
Sure. I agree with that.
But what you are proposing with the ore drop off hold is this
“I click on a target and click to attack”
Turning into
“I click on a target and click to attack, but every 10% of damage I do to it I have open a new window to do a click and drag into another window just to keep doing damage”.
See the difference if I put it in DPS terms?
And see even more how unfair that is given this… especially since you aren’t even adding meaning with a drop off hold.
I’m not. I don’t see how a minigame can be done for mining that won’t rapidly become tedious and annoying given that mining is a sustained activity while hacking is a burst activity. I’m talking about things such as having to look at the game window and make a decision as to which rock is ideal to mine next, how to best position to support your fleet, that sort of thing. It takes the same number of clicks as just mining the top rock on your overview, but you’ve had to be more active and engage with the game in order to make your decision.
Then this raises a different issue. I am trying to offer an idea which saves your Orca at the expense of some meaningless clicks while others would have the mining drones ripped from the hull. Now if you are a active, or even semi-active, miner like you make yourself out to be, which is better?
Instead, it sounds like you are the AFK miner that can’t exist, who is fighting this change not because you want the Orca to be in an more acceptable place, but because fighting these changes keeps AFK mining alive.
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Wow. Just wow.
“Proposes ideas that make the Orca harder to AFK” “Oh, you must be an AFK Miner”
I mean seriously?
Do you even bother reading before you go nuts posting.
It’s infinite. You don’t need to log back. And that, whatever is your ship.
Also you are wrong in your experiment. You try to compare things without setting a proper protocole first, without repeating it. You are therefore culprit of cherry picking, by only considering the samples and the information that fit your opinion and ignoring those that don’t.
The only thing that matter is the rate at which you eat an asteroid. If you target 5 different rocks and the exhumer targets 2 different rocks, on average the time to eat a roid is size×5/drone_yield for orca and size×2/laser_yield for exhumer. Thefore the average time between actions is … roid_size/yield for both (because you eat 5 and 2 drones).
So yes the average APM for an orca is lower because it has less yield. So now reduce again its yield and the APM increase ! You don’t need an experiment for that.
Also people using several miner alts also use a freighter and an orca to move. I can see locust fleets of covetors on dscan, even close to Jita, with freigther and orca. usually one or two orca, no more. Yesterday I found one of 20 IIRC mining ships, with only one orca, in one belt.
It would be indeed better to remove (restrict mining drone launch) ICS mining capability altogether but instead increase their ore hold considerably - even orca’s 180k ore hold is ridiculously small for any reasonable mining setup
Barges/Exhumers are not mining enough compared to the Orca?
Simple Solution: Give the Orcas higher Mining Boosts.
Barges/Exhumers will mine more than Orcas then.
There, Problem Solved!
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An added benefit is, that with more production, there will be more possible destruction !!
In a game about destruction, that’s a real benefit.
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No no no. Scipio you are obviously lying here. The Orca is definitely more APM than barge mining! And those 80k Veldspar rocks?! They don’t exist anymore! Lies and trickery! Everyone knows that nobody would ever AFK mine with an Orca because the yield would be so low - it’s basically impossible to mine AFK in an Orca!
/s
Thank you for putting it to the test.
Honestly the arguments presented ITT from certain folks are of such low caliber that, even being as charitable as possible, I can only assume that people are upset at the idea of losing their AFK mining Orcas and are desperately throwing whatever they can think of at the wall, hoping something will stick. 
AFK mining?
In an Orca in a standard HiSec belt?!
Good luck with that! 
You will be AFK mining for some Minutes. From there, you will be just sitting AFK in a Belt! 
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Yeah. “Some” minutes. About 20. 45+ if you target large enough asteroids.
Theoretically you are right.
But that’s a scenario that almost never exists.
- Only have seen those huge Rocks with Veldspar
- Competition
- Not enough of those Rocks
lmao
Let’s please stop with the lies, ok?
When I was living in Domain I was just a few jumps from Amarr. The asteroid belts regularly had 80k+ Veldspar. There was even an EDENCOM system with 10% bonus to mining speed that still had large Veldspar rocks in every belt.
“Almost never exists” - yeah sure.
if you have 10% more mining speed, then you also have 10% more APM.
Sitting in an EDENCOM System as well.
My Setup:
4 Chars/Orcas
T2 Drones, Full Skills
Every Char gets his own Belt. One Drone per Rock.
I’ll start on one Side of the Belt and mine everything.
I can’t leave to get a Sandwich & Coffee or taking a
Bio Break without coming back and having half of my
Drones on idle.
Good job! 
You can do basic math! So the Orca goes from 0.333 to 0.36 APM.
Okay and? Sounds like you’re just bad at AFK Orca mining?
Not my fault if you can’t make a proper point.
Based on what you have told so far, you are only hunting Veldspar.
Something i’m not doing. So most obvious explaination, why our observations differ.
Also taking into Account, that the Competition in my System and your might be different.
Basically that shows that either your observation is not right/wrong, nor mine.