Nothing you’re saying changes Scipio’s results, you realize this, right?
Nobody cares about his results. APM is linear with yield, that’s just math - because if you go twice as fast, you will empty your asteroid twice as fast.
That’s what you fail to understand.
His experiment relies on selectioning a specific setup that makes the exhumer mine much less than it should, in order to distort the difference in mining between low APM and high APM.
Why should it?
“Orca isn’t as totally AFKable as it used to be before scarcity”
- Havn’t really paid attention to that (in Standard Belts
“Skiff (and by extension barges and exhumers) take about 2-4 times more attention than the Orca”
Yes. And if so, what?
“Yield for a solo Orca and a solo Skiff is approximately the same”
Again: so what?
Get into a Fleet to get yourself a boost. Or, if you don’t like the Skiff, invest the Skills and ISKs and get an Orca.
Because you’re basically arguing:
“The conditions of Scipio’s test almost never exist. I’m basing this assertion on my own limited anecdotal experience.”
It’s just a bad counter-argument. Maybe try leaving your system and exploring a few jumps out and seeing what you find. Promise there will be big rocks (even big Plagioclase and Scordite!) and AFK Orcas in the belts.
Where did i say that?
Like you do?!
But btw., i’m still not sure what Point do you want to make, or you are trying to “prove”.
[quote=“Xuixien, post:303, topic:298741”]
Right here:
That was not concerning Scipio’s Test, but your very specific Szenario:
I’m sorry if this was not clear enough.
English is not my 1st Language.
Also my Braind tends to make weird reference Jumps a lot of people can’t follow (and makes them confused).
No he was not. He was comparing orca and exhumer mining. Try to keep up !
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I’ve removed a large number of rules violating posts. You may find the rules here if you need a refresher. If moderation action needs to be performed here again I will be taking much more severe actions. Thank you.
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So back to productive discussion. I’m going to iterate on these points since bad faith actors tried to crap up the thread and red herring:
As per Scipio’s test, we see three lies debunked:
- Orca mining is higher APM than mining with a barge: in truth, this was shown to not be the case. Orca mining was far lower APM than the Skiff.
- AFK Orca mining is lower yield than active Orca mining: in truth, this is a red herring but is also false, depending on rock selection. The Orca had the same yield as a solo Skiff, for less APM.
- You have to reset drones constantly: again, the truth is that you don’t, as long as you select large deposits. My own calculations showed that you can go as long as 40 minutes before having to reset a drone.
Just keeping these facts fresh in the thread since people are trying to burry them.
nope.
He is cherry picking , that is making a specific example. The only thing this allow to say, is “this is possible” - nothing of a generality can be said of from picked cherries.
Those are not facts. Thospe are generalizations made out of cherry picking case.
The facts are : it’s possible to play with an exhumer and have lower yield than an orca in the end. Does not say a thing about the general case.
Example you can make a situation where a noobship will have more yield than an exhumer. OMG NOOBSHIP OP NERF CCP!!
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(and partly 2): APM equals efford then?!
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“depending on rock selection” So a specific Szenario (solo compared to solo)
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And in this case that is fine. Orca = higher cost/Skill time.
Skiff should be boosted and tested again against an Orca.
And since Orca income is low to OKish in HiSec, Barges/Exhumers Yield may have been looked into.
- “you don’t, as long as you select large deposits”
- Fact ist, large deposits are not the rule but the exception in standard Belts. Good Balancing is made on standard Situations; not rare and/or exotic exceptions.
If those execptions are too harsh: remove those larger rocks from standard Belts.
Again, no reason to mess around with a balanced Ship on that Part.
This is just a shifting goalpost fallacy.
It’s reasonable to assume that players will select larger rocks when they are available, rather than smaller rocks. This is not a cogent refutation.
Then the Skiff would no longer be solo. This is not a cogent refutation.
This is not true. I am more than willing to put this to the test.
This is just a rhetorical tactic trying to create the idea that large asteroids are exceptionally rare. This is, however, not the case.
This would just punish active miners instead.
so the AFK orca is AFK because he takes the time warping belt and switching systems in order to have rocks big enough ?
You serious ?
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Not going for the unproven claims again. We already had that.
So:
Why would that be?
Smaler Rocks = more APM = less AFK = more effort.
Exactly what you are wanting.
Or not?
Please, make up your mind/make it clear.
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Okay so once again you’re just dismissing things you can’t refute. This is cherry picking.
The only person making unproven claims is yourself (re: asteroid size). The claims I have made regarding APM, yield, and resetting drones have been tested, whether you wish to acknowledge that or not. Everyone is free to see for themselves right here.
It would result in more wasted cycles and targeting/switching for active miners, but have little appreciable effect on AFK Orca mining. Skiff already has 4x APM/hour. Every increase in Orca APM (which would be marginal) due to decreasing asteroid size will result in a larger increase in Skiff APM and more wasted cycles. It’s just simple math.
Anyone can repeat it and while as per my post above, a single test might have no value, I’m confident that other people would on average, find pretty much the same outcome (and multiple tests would have a lot of value), because the test was as close as I could get to being a fair comparison.
The results might go opposite to claims made in this thread, but not liking the result isn’t the same as this being a cherry picked example, It could be repeated multiple times over and it would be the same.
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Well, that Test says at the zero Mark: 8 Klicks.
So lets see:
- Going into place: 2 Clicks (or 3, depending)
- Ore Scan: 1 Click
- Getting Drones out: 1 Click (or 2, depending)
- Targeting 5 Rocks: 5 Clicks
- Setting Single Drone on Rock: 15 Clicks
Total Clicks at Zero Mark: 24 to 26 Clicks.
(not including fights against Rats)
Smaler Rocks = less chance to go AFK AND making ISK at the same time.
Smaler Rocks = mined out faster = less time between Actions.
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“It’s not AFK because I have to set it up” is not a valid response.