Incoming Changes to the Orca

Industry Gameplay Center Mining & Extraction
518

High Sec Asteroid belts are so small that they not an Orca load. That mean that a Orca must mine multiple Asteroid belts to get a full load. Since the Asteroid are so small it mines more travel flight time for the drones.

The last time I solo mined in an Orca it took 3.5 hours to mine a full load. That would have been in 2018/2019. That is a max skill Orca pilot , tech II mining drones, 2x tech II mining drone rigs and 1 tech I mining drone rig.

If I put a Coveter alt with the Orca boosting9max boosting skill, max Orca skills, mining foremen implant). I can fill an Orca in about 70-75. If I jump that alt up to a Hulk with the Orca boosting, 52 minutes to fill an Orca. You have to remember that Asteroid belts are so small that those times are wrong now.

An Orca solo mining now is about 5 hours solo and with an alt it is about 1.5 hours. These are normal asteroid belt times in High Sec.

The Orca is a garbage miner but has a nice tank and a great booster. I have already quit playing Eve because of @CCP_Rattati ECO changes. If they nerf mining even more I will never come back to Eve.

2 Likes
519

Like a siege or bastion module, or the triage module that carriers used to have.

This is not true, and if you’re having this problem, you need to find a new system to mine in.

Nope not real, I’m finding similar numbers. But then again, I know how to scout places to mine.

Feel free to contract your assets and ISK to Xuixien. I use it to help newbies.

520

Nice you admit you are cherry picking after admitting your goal was to remove the orca.

521

And we don’t need to go there again.
As already explained, it wouldn’t change AFK-bility but only make it more easy to Gank.
Which is not the intention. Orcas are already easy to kill.

522

“If” and “should” are two different words, with different meanings.

But it would. You agreed with Geten that “nobody would fly the Orca then” - okay and then nobody would be mining AFK in Orcas.

No, not really.

523

When was the last time you killed one?

1 Like
524

It’s all about context and logical interpration.
If someone ask you if you can tell him/her the current time, i guess you actually don’t answer with a simple “yes” or “no”.
But i already told you multiple times that you have to be more precise and less vague. Else it just looks like a blunt and futile (and unsuccessful) attempt to create an “Escape Window”.

I precisely agreed that this case could happen. That doesn’t concerns the AFK-bility.
You are messing up correlation and causality.
The AFK-bility ist still the same and present. It’s (maybe!) just not used because it’s easier to Gank.

So your logic:
A car that used to be fun to drive has become less fun to drive because it’s not used anymore.
(While the real reason is the simple fact, that it lacks fuel.)

You can’t easily kill an Orca in an one-on-one (even more easy when you bring Friends)?
Uhhhm… you don’t do much PVP right? But if you do… practise, improve and get better.

I would NEVER kill an Orca! :smirk:
I’m an innocent, Holy Mary! :innocent:

Here… :wave: … you see that?
That’s my innocent Card!

525

Yes, and the context was that I was responding to a claim you made (that nerfing EHP wouldn’t affect the AFK-ability of the Orca). My response was that if there was a sufficient EHP nerf, it would. So the logical interpretation was that I was discussing the outcome of a possibility, not making a suggestion.

Nice try tho?

Not being blown up directly impacts the ability to AFK, because an Orca wreck isn’t very useful to the person who used to own the ship.

I do. Which is why I understand that, in HiSec, an Orca is a hard target.

526

To much generalization, not enough differentiation.
Yes, that one specific Orca that get’s destroyed is obviously not of any use anymore.
That doesnt impact the usefullness (AFK-bility) of the Orca Shipmodel/the Ships still in Service.

But yeah, if you think that would lower the AFK-bility you are for a Tank change (which was obvious before).
If not, we can swipe that “lower the Tank” from the Table.
Just make up your Mind. Tank nerf yes/no.

If it seems hard for you, that’s completely ok for me.

Even in HiSec i just needs average Math Skill or being smarter than the Orca Pilot to kill it easily.
And given the Fact, that the Orca can be ganked in HiSec with less ISK investment, i tend to say: too easy!
But i understand that this is from my pov, not yours.

One fit is an exeption but rare to see. Since it also cuts down the Yield by around 30% thats on spot and ok: less gain, less risk.
There are plenty of other Targets around.

527

And that is wrong. It would not be used, which does not mean that it would be less AFK. Removing your car does not make it less or more red ; unless of course you claim that red and removed are the same thing.

1 Like
528

Yes I know. I’d already checked your killboard, but thought maybe there was something else, so asked anyway.

1 Like
529

But it does. And you’ve actually already agreed on this point. You conceded that people would use it less with a sufficient nerf, because the ship would be easier to gank or whatever. This impacts it’s AFK-ability because, as I said, the ship has to be alive to be used.

You’re not really countering these points, but instead engaging in word salad.

No. Stop making things up.

It’s just objective facts. T2 fit with shield boosts can get 550k EHP, and still put out almost 500 DPS with Hammerhead II’s. Plus if they’re not suspect, that would take 27-30 T2 fit Catalysts in a 0.5 system. No, it’s not “an easy kill”, sorry. At this point you’re just posturing.

530

Yes, i already accepted that you see that as not easy! No worries! :joy:

That’s why i asked you that easy yes/no question regarding that! :smile:

531

Since the Orca is pretty widely used across highsec and more in highsec than other areas of space, what percentage of orca kills do you intuitively think are in highsec because it’s easy to kill?

1 Like
532

Hmm… 10% maybe.

535

Absolutely agree on that.
Because that’s personal Perception.

What is easy for one person, can be hard for another person.

Personally i have a problem to replace a broken Wheel of my Car. Some friends of mine just do that while they are sleeping.

DID YOU JUST ASSUME MY GENDER!
:smile:
Just kidding, it’s fine. Since i assume you to be a guy.
I just would prefer a “she” instead of a “he”.

537

It’s more just a meme (96% of the Eve player base are sociopathic, no-life, basement dwelling males), but if you are in the 4% of sociopathic, no-life, basement dwelling females (assuming only 2 genders), then my apology.

Yea, just seems a weird one tbh. On a scale from capsule to titan, in terms of ease to kill, the orca sits closer to the titan than it does a capsule.

Looking at the last 2000 kills:

Characteristic Value
Mean damage taken 112,717
Mean total damage based on flat 60% resists 281,793

Obviously a flat resist profile isn’t perfect, but as a first approximation, the average Orca seems to be at about 300K EHP.

That is probably part of the reason that most of them are killed outside highsec (though highsec still sees far more than 10% of losses). Orca kills by security region:

Region of space Kills % of kills
JSpace 133 6.7
Nullsec 479 23.9
Lowsec 561 28.1
Highsec 826 41.3

Given the impression at least, that the Orca is a highsec ship; and is used extensively in highsec, it’s surprising (at least to me, but critics will criticize so good luck to them), that 60% of Orca losses are from areas of space where they are used less.

Of the highsec losses, ganks only make up about 7% of all Orca losses (7.4%); and the mean number of gankers to achieve a kill is 27 gank ships.

It seems NPCs are the biggest killers of Orcas in highsec. Of the 826:

Cause Kills
Gank 147
War 141
NPC, Killright, Suspect, CONCORD 538

Most of the NPC related losses don’t appear to be trigs either (though that’s just a look by eye), which is strange. There’s enough EHP in an Orca that even if you were pointed by normal rats (which doesn’t happen in highsec), you’d be able to refit stabs and moonwalk out of there. I don’t know if that suggests a lot of people are just going AFK when using their Orca, but just seems strange.

In any case, from the most recent 2000 losses, the Orca is a pretty strong ship (and that is fine. It should stay that way in my view).

Yep. No one is forcing anyone. I’m happy chatting as I am; and it’s on topic.

2 Likes
538

Have you also checked for the Diamond rats and response fleets? I think you’ll find they account for a significant percentage also.

They get used in low as well where Rorquals are simply too dangerous to use the core, and even in Null now by many smaller alliances or in higher risk areas. It’s certainly not a highsec only ship.

While I can’t speak for Zayisha, I would suggest it is more the ‘Any ship in highsec is easy to kill’ in terms of once you are set up, it’s press buttons, 15 seconds later ship goes boom. Logistics is not difficult or complicated in terms of moving gank ships, just time consuming.

539

telling me that I could not read the posts is definitely not.

You know you can evaluate the actual EHP of each orca kill ?
Making a generality out of a generality doubles the error rate : your interpretation becomes a stretch. Though I agree that a *3 is a general good approximation.

Again, this is a vague interpretation. Most ships are more killed outside of highsec - besides the barges that are designed to be bad(not even sure).

Again a stretch. You are trying to force arbitrary terms that actually have no meaning and jumping to conclusions.

Orcas are used everywhere, because they give good boost, they can actually carry a good weight.
Claiming they are a HS ships is just ignorance.
Also stretching from kills to usage is … FFS just wrong. If every time you use a ship you had to get it killed that would become quickly non possible to use them.

ROFL. That need for spin would make a very good video game.

protip : look at this kill Orca | Akalyzn | Killmail | zKillboard
more precisely look at the damage from the sansha rat and who is the last hit.
Or this one Orca | Laspar Lemmont | Killmail | zKillboard
etc.

1 Like
541

Some of the differences between orca and rorqual is of course the fact the Rorqual can’t be used in HS, and to get the sweet mining you have to use the industrial core which locks you in place for 5 minutes, and that is the only time you can compress ore so using it is more risky, and it cost give or take 5 times the Orca.

Maybe the Rorqual being the top of the line ship could then get refining/mineral compression, now that would be nice, but also mineral compression would be a huge change since you can’t do that today :slight_smile: