Incoming Changes to the Orca

Gospel if ever was.

The player is given a choice of yield. Personally given the choice, I got with the Skiff. When I could do things a lot easier in a orca or porpoise. And none of these or this thread cover gas.

I do not see an issue with low involved activity. When you consider that most of industry in Eve is a “set and forget”. To copy a freighter blueprint is 8 days. I do not have to do a thing for over week and still make isk. Is it the thought process to turn industry into a mechanical clock I need to wind all the time. Used to set 14day cycles on PI. Making isk and not active at the keyboard.

Go to an Ice Belt. It is not Orcas sitting around. There will be a couple providing boosts, but most of the heavy lifting is done with Skiffs and sometimes Procurers.

I would be just as happy to see the orca broken down into; foreman command ship, foreman logi/re-fitting and harvested-material freighter. Just delete mining drones. Or change their function to a static Sentry/Mining drone. Trading off the miners mobility vs yield.

This.
It’s not a problem to have a reduction in gain per time (yield for mining) translate into an increase in gain per action. It’s actually the case for many activities in eve, not only mining or PI or industry, but also killing rats : drones are actually less efficient, so are missiles, than turrets, but they require less actions ; And tanking too : perma tanking requires cap stability so is much worse than active tanking, but allows much less actions per minutes to handle.

There can be a problem when a lower actions per gain translates into the same gain per minute(VNI, gila, old carrier problem). It’s not the case for the orca since its yield (24.8)is way lower than barges and exhumers’ (lowest is procurer with 27.8 and 84k EHP; hulk can reach 64.6 with T2 and implants but only 12k EHP), and that’s without considering the drone movement speed that actually reduces it even more.

The only problem is that those people don’t care about anything like balancing and just want to stretch terms to make up a problem that does not exist in the first place.

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That was a nice sum-up. Well done.
I’m surprised about those 40% though.

Most People are like Water. They chose the most effortless way to reach their destination.
HiSec is full of Mining Ships that are more effortless to kill than an Orca. That’s probably where the low interest for the Orca comes from.
But since this is HiSec, and Concord is there for a reason that is a good thing.
It’s still quite easy to find Orca Pilots that “help” you not to have Concord interferance.
And a Orca in an 1:1 (where no one can interfere if you time it correctly) in HiSec is a free Kill. Even for a destroyer, just takes a bit longer! :smiley:

Back to the Orca and AFK-ability.
What just slipped my Mind:
Just make Belt Rats Focus more on Drones. AFK-ability disrupted.
Well not really disrupted, but a AFK Orca without active Drones is an AFK Ship without real use.

So now Orcas are hard to kill in HiSec?

Hmmm ok. Glad we finally agreed!

You’re free to come out to Solitude with a T1 or T2 destroyer and test this on one of my Orcas via duel request. I promise you it will not go the way you think.

Yes!
For you they are hard to kill!
We already agreed on that earlier.

And come up with an unrealistic Orca fit, right! :joy:
Nah, under realistic conditions your fit would be scanned and the ship for the attack chosen, based on the fit.

No need to proof Earth is a Sphere when it’s done multiple times before:

You’re free to ship scan me before the fight. You can even go against my lowest skilled character. He can’t even use medium drones.

Now you’re shifting goalposts. You said it would be “easy” for a destroyer to kill an Orca. In fact, you said it was a free kill - “even for a destroyer”.

Well, I’m giving you the opportunity to put your money where your mouth is. Come bring a T1 or T2 destroyer and duel my Orca.

I’m waiting.

Except none of those Orcas were killed by a T1 or T2 destroyer. They were all killed by T3Ds, T2 cruisers, and a pirate battleship.

So what I’m hearing is you don’t want to be embarrassed so you’re not going to come fight my Orca with a T1 or T2 dessie. Mmkay. Concession accepted!

As said, no need to make the Trip to Solitude. The Facts have been proven numerous times.
See the links… they are all Solo Kills, which is the point.

Yes, and in the first linked Kill in my last post it’s prooven.
(the 85365719 one)
And guess what… a T3 Destroyer actually IS a Destroyer!
Gasp! O_O
Shooooooooooooooooking! I know! :joy:

You said an Orca would be a “free kill” for a destroyer. I invited you to come prove this by dueling my Orca with a T1 or T2 destroyer. Hell, you can even bring a Hecate - I’m a generous and charitable man.

Until you do, though, nothing’s proven. So sorry. :cry:

I’d said T1 or T2. This is just shifting goalposts, trying to weasel your way out because you can’t back up your words with actions. At this point I don’t care about your words. I invited you to come duel my Orca. Until you accept that offer and come put your words to the test, you got nothing.

Again:

Concession…

accepted.

Which is cherry picking again. Most of the time, the orca fielded in HS would be free kill for destroyers - precisely becaue they are in HS and don’t even have to deal with said destroyers.

Hu, yes. It’s proven he’s right, and you are cherry picking.

Says the one cherry picking and stretching the terms.
None said that orcas can’t be fitted for fighting. Actually in NS, they are.
YOU are the one shifting the goalpost from “orcas in HS are easier to kill than in NS” to “you are wrong unless you agree with my childish request”.

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We just need to agree that the Orca is a fleet boosting ship and should have remained as such. Remove the mining bonuses for drones for ice and ore from it and its fine. Something everyone can agree on.

Which would make it a 100% AFK Ship, which is not wanted.
So sorry, but no. That is nothing “everyone” can agree on.

Actually, buffing it was a feature in my day. Mining was made more profitable by drone poo being removed and then mission loot rebalanced with regards as how much ore was being reprocessed. CCP said they would increase the ISk per hour made mining in high sec and they then buffed hisec ming vessels potential EHP to be less attractive to (i guess small groups of) gankers. So if they “finally nerf” hisec mining anymore than it is, a lot of people are going to quit. I ain’t one of them, I’m just pointing out the history.

Also, My AFK porpoise pays for itself every 10 hours I think. It sure AF don’t do that in the Orca. You see an AFK Orca, Kill it. Its the only right thing to do.

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Please, cease with this nonsense about, “Everyone can agree on.” If you read the thread, you would know that there are people who do not agree with this, and we have explained why, in painstakingly careful terms.

Whether you like it or not, the Orca, as an industrial command ship (not a “fleet boosting ship”) has a perfectly legitimate active mining role. There is absolutely no rational reason to nerf that capability, and in 460 plus posts, not one person has been able to provide anything approaching a rational reason, other than huffing about the nonsensical fantasy of mythical “AFK Orcas” ruining the economy.

So please, stop with these fake pleas for “consensus”.

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The boosting is what makes it a “command ship” - same as all the other “command” ships.

  1. AFK Orcas are not a myth.
  2. I can’t remember anyone making an economic argument against the Orca in particular.

Let’s stay honest, ok?

If there is no economic issue, then there is no need to nerf the mining abilities of the Orca.
Aim your solution at the problem, not at something you are saying is not a problem.

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I’d wholly agree with you that they are not a myth. I do wonder however how much of a problem they actually are in reality.

Like I said, quite a lot earlier in this thread, the vast majority of the Orcas that I come across are flown by multi-boxers who most of the time are not AFK.

For the record, quite a few that I’ve come across recently have been flown by Russian or Chinese players (and sometimes I’ve chatted to the pilots quite amicably via Google translate, but their lack of English in local and so on might have made English speakers think they were AFK).

:mouse:

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Its almost amusing how AFK mining is treated as a problem. I have mined more AFK than at the helm I think, whether in terms of ISK value or volume. I doubt I would be playing EVE today if that never happened. And yes, I did a lot of that in the Orca, ice mining while doing housework.

AFK mining is not a problem. Its a contrived excuse created for the sole purpose of excusing miner ganking from people who would also refer to shooting ducks in a barrel as “hunting”. Some of those types are also prone to believing their own propaganda rather than just spewing it around to enlist others in the delusion.

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That’s a strawman.

Indeed, there was no actual argument against the orca but “I can’t stand it !!!”

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I heard ridiculous claims like Orca miners in highsec can go afk for hours and have ore worth hundreds of millions in their cargo when they return. So i tried Orca mining myself and my experience was pretty much this:

Also, going afk in a highsec belt for a long time is a bad idea because a FOB can spawn at any time and send out fleets quickly. (I once died to FOB fleet before it showed up in the agency.)

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