Mining nerfs to the Orca should only happen if CCP is able at the same time to come up with an actually interesting mining mini-game.
Until they can do that, mining should be an activity that can be done semi-AFK with an Orca, because it’s the most mind-numbingly boring activity in the game. It’s necessary for the economy to operate, but there’s nothing engaging about it.
Let it be done semi-AFK, or change mining before changing the semi-AFK ways to do it.
Is fiddly as ■■■■, and requires manual drone assignment the first and every subsequent time a target is set for a drone. It is the most efficient way to mine in an orca solo though because otherwise one drone will scoop the last m3 of rock and the other 4 will waste a cycle on a dead rock. Not to mention the constant repositioning you avoid by splitting then up. Its not afk by any stretch.
Given I’ve not seen a decent player response on this topic and we have many times the brainpower CCP has tossing ideas around, I’m not optimistic on this front.
Hacking is marginal and only works because you spend so long getting to the hacking and so little time doing the hacking. I can’t ever imagine CCP letting you strip an entire ore anomaly in 60 seconds for example.
The idea is bad to start with.
First the hacking minigame is already performed by bots which have a way better completion time than human.
Then it’s ok do it it from time to time, but it becomes tedious if you keep doing that. Literally why people want to mine instead of doing rats or missions or abyss, is because it is not supposed to be an activity where the slighest mistake/disconnect/problem IRL will make you lose a several-hours-worth investment that is required to do the activity.
Third, the hacking minigame relies on your ping. For people who have bad routing /ISP the delay between each action is double your ping at best. It would make mining specially bad for people with bad ping.
Me neither.
As I said in my earlier post, almost all of the Orcas that I see flown are being flown by multiboxers. What’s more because I tend to mostly mine in my nippy little Skiff, I frequently ask the pilots if they’d be so kind as to give me a boost. Maybe because I ask nicely, 95% of the time I both get the boost, and have some kind of conversation with the pilot (both for politeness and because I’m interested in the people behind the character) so they’re clearly not AFK either, because if they were, they’d ignore me.
I really don’t know where these fleets of (imagined?) Orca are, ravaging the asteroid belts, but they’re certainly not in my chunk of the universe.
I can’t help thinking that there’s just a whiff of whinging ganker in the air right now …
I totally agree with @Nevyn_Auscent here.
It’s utter nonsense to suggest that by making someone repeatedly press a key to mine a rock this is somehow ‘improving’ the game, it’s clearly not.
If you’re going to do this, then it seems only fair that you also remove auto firing on weapons, auto reload, and so on ad infinitum. Which of course would have gankers whinging in a fraction of a nanosecond about how “this game is all about PvP and the Devs have ruined it …”
I think more and more, reading back through the discussion and between the lines - and if people are honest I think we all know this - what this discussion is really about is one person saying to another person I don’t like how you play the game and it shouldn’t be allowed, because I don’t like it.
I’m sorry but what really shouldn’t be allowed in EVE, ever, is for any sub-group within the game to dictate the way that all others should play. It’s not fair and it’s not what the game is about.
Some people mine, some people gank, some explore and some build, and so do a whole bunch of this and other stuff as well that not listed.
The wonder and brilliance of this game is the vast diversity of playing styles and what people choose to do.
I hope we never get into a situation whereby gankers (or any other sub-group for that matter) dictate how the mechanics of the game work, how every ship can be flown, used or deployed and so on.
If we do, then EVE, as we know it, really will be dying.
If you sincerely believe this is true then submit a dossier to CCP showing them your empirical and factual evidence - feel free to post the contents here for independent peer review - and make the case articulately and comprehensively.
Otherwise what’s really going on here is you expressing a opinion with no basis in reality however many times you keep telling us it is.
It’s a bit like the flat earthers. You’re entitled to believe whatever the hell you want but if you want to use your beliefs to control the behaviour of others, then where’s the evidence?
.
Me either. Mining should always be semi-AFKable as a result and the Orca shouldn’t be nerfed as a mining platform.
Your argument here is basically “it’s not AFK because I have to set it up”.
I never said it would improve the game. I said it would make the Orca an “active miner”. If you’d paid attention to what I was responding to you’d have got that.
Well CCP doesn’t like AFK gameplay either. Several devs have said as much, and they’re thinkstorming ways to reduce AFK-ability of activities.
Oh? And how do you know what “sub-group” someone belongs to?
lmfao
No, I’m expressing my experience as a miner.
The Orca is a currently pointless ship to put a player in unless they’re multiboxing or AFK mining. Otherwise it’s just relegated to alts. I know, because I run 2 of them. And this is easy to understand if you calm down, take a deep breath, and think about it for a second: what does the Orca do on grid? It provides boosts. Boosting is not active gameplay. You just click the modules and the Orca will keep shooting out boosts until it runs out of charges. What else does the Orca do? It hauls the ore to station - every 45 minutes or so. Mmmkay. Oh the Orca also mines. But the yield is so low that it doesn’t need to send drones to a new asteroid more than every 10 minutes, or even longer if you assign each drone to it’s own asteroid.
lmao what.
Its not afk because you have to constantly assign individual drones to new rocks and manage your ships position relative to all of the rocks your drones are assigned to. It’s consistently interactive and much more rewarding if you want it to be. The fact that you can slough and afk’ish this activity means very little when the price for doing so is your effectiveness. You’ll be missing cycles, and at sub optimal ranges from your drones. You can be killed by surprise trig rats in the time it take to go take a ■■■■. These rocks are tiny, they pop stupid fast which means more micromanaging drones. They won’t choose a new rock and go back to work by themselves.
Again, the ones afking this ■■■■ are getting trash yields. Absolute trash.
Well, you are wrong.
you don’t need to be AFK to have an interest in the orca.
The orca is actually a good ship, and the best overall ship among the mining ships line, just before the venture.
I assume by “AFK” you actually mean “low APM gameplay”. Those two terms are VERY different and using one instead of the other is just stupid.
What’s more the eg covetor which has double the yield of the orca… requires exactly as much APM since you can split your lasers. So actually orca has MORE APM than the other mining ships.
“Constantly”.
I have some AFK Orca miners where I live. They sit in the same spot for 20 minutes at a time, each drone assigned to a different rock.
Was never my argument nor do I think this is a strong counter argument.
So?
This isn’t my argument.
What you’re doing here is attempting to equivocate and obfuscate: “When does a hill become a mountain?”. I’d argue that when an activity is so low in APM that a player can literally step away from the computer for 20 minutes or more, saying “it’s low APM, not AFK” is disingenuous at best.
lmao this isn’t even remotely accurate.
It literallty is
On the opposite, you are stretching the terms to make them mean something different.
AFK stands for Away From Keyboard. If you can’t prove that the person is actually away from keyboard, then your claims, your complain, are void and meaningless.
If you use the terms for something different than what they actually mean, don’t be astonished to be considered a fool and your opinion simply considered as a consequence of your stupidity.
Saying “low action per minute activities is AFK” is disingenuous at best, and actually a plain troll in most cases.
Yeah whatever. You are not the only one with orcas, and neither the only one with covetors. The only action that you need more for the covetor is when your hold is full. Besides that, they have same APM
No, it’s actually not. Like, not even a little bit.
More obfuscation. In postmodern fashion you’re trying to call definitions into question and blur the boundaries between categories. You’re trying to turn a mountain into a hill and say “it’s just relative, and you don’t actually know when a hill becomes a mountain, therefore, this mountain is a hill.”
This is just projection and spin.
Sorry, but I actually run 4 miners and 2 Orcas. There is no way you will ever be able to gaslight me into believing this.
This is just projection and spin.
AFK has a definition. You are the one saying this definition is no matter, all relative, etc.
You use it for something that it does not mean. You are the one stretching the term to the point your point is just a huge amount of disingenuous ■■■■.
Your claim that specific people are AFK are just projection and spin.
Again, that’s just a troll repeating the same fallacy by claiming orca players are AFK while you literally have no idea if they do or not. That’s just a huge pile of BS.
So… any proposed change that reduces the effectiveness of active mining in the orca, even as a byproduct of reducing the ability to “afk” mine, means you are punishing people for doing it right. It’s like shooting through the hostage to hit the criminal. Its shortsighted and lazy. Like the vni change that could’ve been avoided by spawning stasis towers or frigs that actually run you down and web you. Add to that a drone aggressive ai(copy and paste sleepers). This, what people see as the problem, is a game play issue not a ship issue. Unlike the rorq, which has been a ship issue the whole time. Instead of nerfing it they nerf the entire game. The orca is fine, its mining thats bad.
Edit: or nerfing assault frigs to steer people to combat ceptors… Which failed btw. When all they had to do was make combat ceptors worthy of use. They are constantly “fixing” the wrong ■■■■.
Thanks for providing a great example of what bad faith argumentation looks like. I will respond to you when you add to the discussion. Take care.
(INB4: no u)
What do you mean by “doing it right”? CCP has stated that they want to see the Orca and Rorqual (and maybe even the Porpoise? I can’t remember, Porpoise might need an iteration too) returned to their original roles as boosters and haulers. To this end, they’re taking a close look at the mining capabilities of both platforms.
The question we keep returning to is: why do you mine in an Orca? Why are you so upset at the idea of changing it?
“I like mining with drones” isn’t a sufficient answer: while I appreciate playstyle preferences, the health of the game is more important than any individual player’s preferences. If it’s not the ability to go take a shower and alt-tab to other things such as watching Netflix or working on homework while giving the EVE client a minimum of attention, I can’t imagine why anyone would mine in an Orca over even a Venture, which will make more ISK/hr even without a hauler.
still,
you seem to have difficulties with accessing the definition of terms.
here, some thing that you never heard about : AFK - Wiktionary, the free dictionary
In this page you will find what is the actual definition of the term you use so much while you have no idea what it actually means.
Initialism of away from keyboard (that is, away from one’s computer)
That’s factually inaccurate.
big deeaaaaalll. Replace the word “Venture” with any of the mining barges then. Your nitpick hasn’t changed the point of my statement.
It’s not nitpick. It’s you who accept to say something factually false.
It would be nitpicking if it actually had no effect on your claim ; but your claim that the venture is better at mining than the orca, which is just wrong.
That’d be conclusive evidence then that it must be happening all over New Eden, because it happens in your backyard, ummm, with ‘some’ AFK Orca miners? How many is that exactly? 100, 10? 1?
That’s a pretty cool set up. You clearly know your stuff when it comes to multiboxing and mining.
Hang on, Didn’t you just say that you had two Orcas? I’m getting really confused here. First you say that you have two of the things then that a Venture makes more ISK/hr, I mean if you know this, and it’s true, well why fly the Orcas?
I’m not sure that it’s true by the way, that a Venture will actually make more per hour than an Orca, but please do explain the logic to us because if nothing else it’ll be entertaining…
LMAO
Hilarious!
