A large problem with high sec is the missions theyre just massively repeatable text wall chores.
There was never a legitimate questing system. Looking back at runescape and jagex the disparity is clear.
Runescape quest’s had variety, good stories, lucrative rewards and perks, opened up new areas of gameplay and shortcuts, used all the different skills in the game and some needed several people to finish.
They had cutscenes also and if you finished all the quests you got a nifty cosmetic cape.
The same could be done here with small number of high end cosmetic isk sinks in game that are only usable if you’re certified as having all the quests completed by all the agents in the game. Class S pilots license for example if it was still called a pilots license.
And it wouldn’t replace current missions, those would still be there for people who wanted to grind.
But highsec never had a legitimate solo player questing mechanic that is a big part of MMOs.
Get a quest, hey we need you to go into a special wormhole that will appear in x space around x time, you’ll need three ships to achieve this objective for our little story cutscene. These aren’t normal ships, so here’s a limited 3 run bpc that you have to go out and manufacture for yourselves and 2 other players, travel to hostile space in these fancy ships and find the wormhole and then you advance to the next stage of the quest etc etc. Stuff like that instead of warp one system over, kill the NPCs, and come back over and over again.
There is a different between intentionally doing something, and doing something in a mistaken belief. There is no evidence that CCP is intentionally doing anything in high sec for the benefit of non-high sec players. What I and others are saying is that the reality is that CCPs efforts probably end up being something that is either so good that it draws in non-high sec players while pushing out high sec players (who, as a group, are more solo oriented and less social thus harder to organize) OR the rewards won’t be good enough, making their efforts a waste of time.
But to suggest that there is some vast conspiracy against high sec to the point where CCP would intentionally pretend that a high sec expansion is really a null sec expansion is just, well, that’s a Dinsdalian level of paranoia. In game as in real life, one should never attribute to malice that which can be blamed on incompetence.
CCp probably thinks they are giving people what they desire with more ‘group content’ with ‘better AI’, but the likelihood is that most PVE players experience the new content (like the pirate FOBs) for a couple weeks and then go right back to saving that hapless Damsel from the exact same people who keep kidnapping her for the millionth time.
Frankly, I was skeptical of CCP Larrikin’s answer back then, and I am even more skeptycal now.
FAI, he did not talk about adding missions, but about changing the mission system altogether. The dude is just this delusional, pure CCP cluelessness.
There is nothing wrong with missions other that they’ve been the same 400 missions for 13 bloody years. Add more missions regularly and that’s all the system needs to keep going.
Bu that’s not cool, that does not earn OKR rewards for developers, it does not push players to the “core game” and that would be as much as agreeing that EVE is a PvE game with some PvP in it.
There is no conspiracy in anything I wrote at all. It just mere observation. I’m looking very carefully at every expansion CCP is making to the game and more and more they add the less content is there for me, mostly solo playing player. You may say: “but its a MMO game, players should socialize”. Let’s not forget most of the exploration content, for example, is played by a single players. They provide salvage, DED modules, implant parts, content for pvpers that hunt them.
Now CCP will add group content for the least group activity part of the game (hisec). I’m asking for whom? What were the hisec players expectations? Do you really think it was group play? Stale missions, predictable scripted sites, boring and useless agency events - nothing will change here. As you noticed that new content will be propablly done by non hisec players.
I’m waiting for detailed information about this new expansion, but from what I see so far there will be nothing for me there, again. Knowing how slow developement at CCP is (remember when refineries were first annoucned?) I’m starting to lost hope anything will ever change.
Yes I do. Because EVERYTIME CCP asked what players wanted, and/or evertytime someone posted somewhere a DEV could read it, “GROUP CONTENT”, “DYNAMIC PVE” and “PVE more like PVP so you can used PVP fit ships and survive pvp encounters” were mentioned. Over and over again, at Fanfest’s PVE related panels over the course of years, at EVE Vegas every time etc etc.
Which is why I linked the ‘myth’ article I did. CCP is seems to be responding to what PVE players say they want, in the same way the Food industry provided things people said they wanted in taste tests and other surveys, only to find out that “The mind knows not what the tongue wants”.
(The link is to Malcom Gladwell’s Ted Talk about Spaghetti Sauce among other things, I urge everyone here to watch it, it’s very insightful).
Like Gladwell says, most people say they want one thing when their actions say another. They say they want "dark, rich coffee when what they really want is weak , milky coffee.
PVErs across MMOs are like that, they say they want dynamic content while killing the same mobs over and over again, in games like EVE they say they want to be able to survive PVP when in reality what they want is no pvp. They say they want group content when the vast majority of their play is solo.
How many PVErs other than me say “what I want is more missions and anomalies that I can do solo, nothing too difficult, but good enough to mount a minor but still predictable and survivable challenge so I can figure out different ways to beat it” other than me and a couple others? The truth is, not many, and it’s not CCP’s fault that year after year people have told them they want group content with difficult to beat AI and dynamic elements?
The people you should be upset with are PVE players who don’t really know what they want, not CCP.
Apart from nullsec players I never seen players wanted “group content”. It seem nullsec players will have their “group content” but not only in nullsec anyway, and players on fanfests are mostly from nullsec.
PVE players, at least most of them, do know what the want. Problem lie withing CCP thinking. BR structure is a good example. NPC behavoir mimic real players. So? For whom is that UI? Nullsec pvp players that don’t have enough pvp targets to shoot? All that wasted developer hours wouldn’t be necessary if they remove known triggers at combat sites and replace them with random mechanism . One simple change that would improve gameplay for everyone. If something is unpredicable to some degree it won’t get stale so fast. I don’t need new UI in missions or DED sites. Currently I’m doing sites almost mechanicaly. Shoot the “foreman” at last room, warp out.
but “if”, pve in this game is just a mere step into pvp, solo or group, without all those “it’s a pvp game, everyone vs everyone” ■■■■■■■■, then CCP must stop pretending they are doing something for better pve. PvEers don’t need rats UI to be like other players. If they wanted to shoot other players they won’t be doing pve. I never understand why “endgoal” for CCP is nullsec, while healthy cluster is a must to have healthy nullsec.
That would be truer if CCP had listened to the people asking more missions… and anyway CCP has had enough evidence that what PvErs ask according to you, doesn’t works.
So why try over and over again? Burner missions are largely ignored, OK, let’s ditch improved AI and PvP-like NPCs. But oh no, they still insist, let’s drop mining fleets (is anyone even bothering with them?), and then the pirate shipyards, and then… Jesuschrist, at which point will be evident that 90% of PvE players DO NOT USE THOSE?
If you’re doing your best to deliver dark, strong coffee and eveybody keeps drinking watery coffee, how long does it take to start delivering what they’re buying?
“Dammitr, they’ve rescued the Damsel for the 1,000,000th time… OK let’s add a mission, “kill the drunk bodyguard” and have a laugh”.
A better example was events like the PVE townhalls where people asked over and over and over again for group pve. Maybe you don’t participate in talking about this issue with people who actually matter (most people seem to think bitching on a forum is enough), but I was there for the last one. I posted my thoughts even before the meeting and sure enough, “Procedural pve”, “better AI” and “more group content” was brought up time and again.
As is usual, prejudice (against null sec, which leads to this idea that CCP only cares about null when real null expansions are years apart) clouds people’s ability to think about the issue at hand. Again, CCP isn’t making some stealth null sec expansion, they are responding to what PVE players KEEP asking for and have asked for for 13 years. And PVE players keep asking for it because they think they want it, when they don’t.
Cherrypicking posts from years ago to backup your point of view doesn’t prove pve players want group content. I’m following fanfest presentation, csm minutes and forums, reddit even and I don’t really see big rush for group pve content, not that would be taken seriously. Players want to refresh pve content in general.
Jenna there no such things as stealth null expansions, most of the new content are in general crafted for nullsec. There are tweaks here and there for something else but how long we have to wait for some bigger overhaul of hisec or lowsec? 1 year took them to do refineries, 1 year! Some games has shorter life span than CCP developing process. Nullsec was a seller for some time (biggest mmo battles etc.) but it ended. Alphas fail because it didn’t keep players long enough to taste nullsec. Players didn’t last long becasue hisec and lowsec wasn’t enough entertaining. SP trade won’t solve a thing here. EvE cluster must have enjoyable gameplay, in both solo and group content not nullsec only.
The problem has always been that CCP’s main information gathering on what players want has always been centered on three methods : panels at Fan Fests, Town Hall meetings, and CSM input. All three of those sources are dominated by people who are usually parts of large, multi corp alliances and based in nullsec. All of them are passionate about their group and style of play, hence spending both the time and effort to attend/run for office. However, they are almost monolithic in nature in their perception on what EVE needs, at least in regards to highsec. I don’t usually attribute any evil intent on their part, despite one large group who’s motto has been “we’re not out to ruin THE game, we are out to ruin YOUR game” always being on the CSM, but their perspective and focus has always been on nullsec and the fueling/funding of PvP in part from PvE activities in hisec.
The large number of players are not asking for a change in the style of general play or focus in EVE, we are just asking for a part of the resource pie be devoted to refreshing a large part of EVE that has remained stagnant for well over 10 years! To see that CCP is using resources to duplicate the play style/content of the Incursion communities angers many players and gives rise to the idea that CCP is catering to the hisec alts of null sec players (again!). Whether that is actually true or not , the optics are very poor. It’s not tinfoil thinking, it’s just frustration by a large part of the community on CCP’s lack of empathy/awareness on the issue of lack of content.
The bottom line is that many players are asking for new missions/exploration sites that can be be done solo or NOT, not missions/sites that ONLY be done in groups; that’s a big difference. I would hope that the CSM would be a better class of politicians and truly represent the whole community, not their selected niche social group/playstyle, but it appears that hope is futile. The forums exists for communication of ideas and concerns, not merely for venting or sh#tposting, but CCP just seems to ignore anything that isn’t “direct contact” with them. The problem is that their method of receiving that information is highly biased and skewed just due to the nature of their own preferences and ,therefore, the data they receive reflects these biases.
I welcome ANY new HS content, period. Yay, CCP admits there are people in HS. However, duplicating an already existing gameplay style which will probably be used by around 5% of HS ( as per a CSM member statement) is a poor use of apparent dwindling CCP assets. The Hisec community is not trying to force a play style on anyone, nor eliminate current game mechanics. What we ask is that CCP and the CSM read these boards, note our posts, and devote some of their precious coding resources for new gameplay toward addressing some of the well-thought and reasoned concerns we have, because the current method on deciding the current game needs are failing and alienating a large part of your customer base. The PvP machine is fed by a steady diet of new blood/people and CCP’s current strategic planning is choking part of that off.
Everybody keeps talking about group PvE, but the problem is unlike other MMOs EVE is not set up that way… When you finish the NPE everyone is a solo pilot, there is not true faction, no Horde/Alliance, Nod/GDI, GI/Cobra divide to foster a true us vs them mentality… It just ends up ether “safety in numbers” or “safety of environment”
If only there was a part of the game to foster this natural form of conflict.
Where are you seeing these ads for high sec corporations? The vast majority of the ones I’ve seen are for Sov Null or j-space. Yeah, sure there’s the occasional one for a mining or industry collective but many of those are buyback scam corps.
My main is in a corporation that’s pretty much perma-decced and dealing with that is a huge waste of time. You can’t be proactive about it, the aggressors will just play station games. You certainly can’t ignore it, you’ll get popped by somebody flying something pretty blingy that new people have no hope of skilling into without dropping several hundred dollars on injectors. Those that have trained into gear that can take them on have been burnt out by the station games.
Why do people prefer PVE? For myself: When I play I need to feel that I’ve accomplished something. Somebody coming around to mess with me is just a giant waste of time which pretty much how I view all HS PvP. When I feel like PvP I – gasp – leave hi-sec.
Not really fear, it’s resignation. Until the wardec mechanic is fixed I see the futility of small to mid-sized HS corporations.
i’ve heard stories of Cannibal Kane himself, how he was taken out by small groups and he was conaidered the end boss of HighSec, who no one wanted to mess with for good reasons.
To beat your deccers, you have to be smart. You either evade them, or get your noobs to fight. Winning isn’t a requirement at all, and if you can isolate one of the deccers to come for you, you’re gold. As long as new players aren’t fed a defeatist attitude, they’ll enjoy it. it’snot like us older plars couldn’t SRP them easily, right? i could, even on this char, and i’ve barely played.
one guy for ecm, one guy for sensor dampeners, then you decide how you engage. close range, long range? one heavy tackle, several small tacklers? the problem is the expectation of having a chance in the first place.
you win, when they leave you alone. you win, when they fight you. you will always lose, though, when you’re defeated by our attitude toaards it. saying that there is nothing one an do is plainly false and shows a lack of experience. hell, at worst, you can always fight back by using psychological terrorism. drop to npc corp, fit bumping ships, start harassing them at stations.
one of the reasons why most new player corps should be shut down, btw. bad CEOs, who have zero clue and spine.
This is more of a general issue than CEO’s specifically… But those CEOs do hold back some of that “fight back” progress that EVE players need to at least understand.
You are correct. But at the same time thats kinda the problem. All that “how to survive/fight” knowledge bleeds out of High sec faster than it accumulates… At least thats how I see it.
so much for new UI.