There’s no skill needed to activate a module.
There is more skill in not needing a module in the first place.
This makes it easier for lower skilled players to achieve the same safe outcome that more skilled players can already achieve. It makes it more possible for lazy choices to be safe.
That lowers the skill needed for hauling.
Yah, I don’t hear you agreeing that freighter ehp should be lowered. So you basically want tanky freighters equipped with microwarpdrives and jammers, so they can just run away from gankers. That’s not even remotely balanced, considering that it already can require dozens of Catalysts to kill a freighter. You don’t even have the intellectual honesty to admit that you are asking that freighters receive a substantial buff.
As I said, if there is any change to freighters, I think they should be nerfed.
Sorry but that is not true at all, the BS MWD has to have some skill in clicking to the right place so it has an impact while being bumped, and of course the skill to have set them up in the first place. Do you want me to continue.
Spectrum lock breaker has to be used to impact the fleet the most. Timing can have a big impact, so you need it to impact as many ships as possible and reduce the number of ships that can lock you again and apply damage.
It requires skill and thought. Are you sure you are saying what you are saying?
No, nobody wants you to continue.
As I said if you are trying to blow them up in a safer place then expect it to be harder.
It’s not a safe place. WELCOME TO EVE.
OK safer place, will change it to safer.
I think it should be less safe. Shall I continue?
Your train of thought of adding Battleship MWD on freighters with no-EHP nerf means, because freighters have 10x the mass of – which more than counters the 0.5x base speed of – a battleship, you’ve now created the ultimate bumping ship with a lot of EHP that the small & solo guys you claim to defend now cannot deal with.
Sorry you need to explain that better, are you suggesting that people are going to start bumping with freighters because they had MWD’s. If that was the case people would be doing that with Bowheads. I don’t understand what you are trying to say.
Yes.
I hypothesize they aren’t because the base EHP of a Bowhead is about half (65%) of the sqishiest freighter’s base. Hence, perhaps you should be for an EHP nerf as well.
To reciprocate: I understand you perfectly well, I hope you strive to do the same.
I am trying to understand what you suggested, which is why I asked.
To be blunt no one will use a freighter to bump because it is too slow and ponderous to do that. There may be a few circumstances where it could be useful, like Jita undock, but that would be very conditional. So no, I can not see it being used like that.
And to be blunt I may be wrong but the EHP on my Bowhead was way more than my freighters. Though fitting was part of this.
That’s not being blunt, that’s just called being willfully ignorant of emergent gameplay. Freighters have some of the largest collision hitbox ellipsoids in high sec, and with some of the largest masses available, you can literally move a wall into position to prevent ships of comparable mass and speed (other freighters) from getting within jump distance of a non-regional non-constellation gate. Since the griefer guys playing “gate zone defense” have less of distance to travel. You get physical blockading of gates. And full-freighter EHP to deal with if you try to counter-gank.
And then that’s not even beginning to include the existing bump mechanics of using small ships – they’re optimized for targeted bump-distance instead of collision box size.
Why be insulting?
If what you were saying is going to happen with freighters with a BS MWD it would have already happened with the Bowhead. So why has this not happened.
I can tell you why, I have been in many fleets with capitals, I have warped in FAX’s, Dreads carriers and supers, when you arrive at the gate in a fleet of dreads or arrive at the citadel you have to be ready to jump the gate or dock as soon as you arrive, because of bumps. There is also a long period of time while the larger ship deaccelerates
This is so conditional that it is not worth doing, which is why people are not doing it with the bowhead now.
So it is just not an issue and will not happen apart from a few cases. You are obviously thinking about the lowsec trick of having something bump the freighter as it comes upto the gate, have you seen people doing this in Bowheads?
I already told you my hypothesis. You can believe whatever other hypothesis you want. I could also talk about the collision box of a Bowhead being inferior compared to an Obelisk, making it a superior choice at Bowhead speeds for this strategy, but at this point I sincerely doubt anything I say will trump your experience of never having seen a Bowhead do precisely this before or your experience warping capitals/FAXes/Dreads/shuttles.
I intended to be as blunt as you, as I assumed we were having a frank discussion. I apologize that it sounded insulting.
I am thinking of the time I warped to gate and accidentally – through no fault of my own – landed inside an Obelisk in high sec in my Blockade Runner and was violently ejected away from the gate and decloaked. Luckily I didn’t lose anything at the time, no gankers were around.
The design of bowhead fitting options is bad. You may have more slots than when you’re fitting a freighter, but the amount of meaningful choices is much lower. Max tank + MWD, are there other options?
Freighters may have only a few slots, but have conflicting meaningful choices when fitting their ship, which is a sign of good game design. It allows players to choose between hitpoints, cargo, align time, warp speed and each of those options can be a good one depending on circumstances. And with choices you allow players to make mistakes which separates bad players from good players.
Bowhead has one build.
My recommendation: scratch the current bowhead fitting options and make it more like the other freighters.
But I repeat myself, I already said this earlier in this thread.
I mentioned the experience of warping capitals to a gate as part of a large fleet of capitals because capitals have different behaviour to sub-caps. The deacceleration is a lot faster in sub caps for a start. I have been in many fleets of dreads warping between gates and while you had to be careful to not take your time to jump through, it was easy to do. Which is why I do not think it is a problem, you see many freighters arrive at certain gates together and most of the time nothing happen.s
Your experience with the BR is likely that you ended up within that ship that was taking it’s time and had that result. I will help you here, in busy systems use a perch and warp to the gate from the perch when using a BR.
So sarcastic…, if this was a thing that was going to happen people would already be doing it with bowheads imo, it is my opinion of course. I have explained that when moving in large fleets of Dreads and stuff I was able to jump even within that clutter, so I am telling you that it is not going to be a thing. But I could be wrong.
And I have said that this is not the case for freighters, they will never have one build because while you cannot adjust the cargo capacity of the bowhead, you can with freighters. The Bowhead having a MWD makes it a much more enjoyable and effective ship to use and can make bumping it more of a challenge.
I took your comments to be a straight forward attempt at diversion when the entire discussion was about align time and warp time.
You know what would make flying freighters enjoyable? A 2 second align time.
Would it be good for the game? No.
Enjoyable != good game design
A Bowhead does not have a 2 second align time even with a BS MWD, and neither will the freighters.
And it would be good for the game to have the same fitting options as the Bowhead and not what you suggested.