Personally I dont feel it changed much, but I do feel that the nerfing of wardecs to where they are now fostered a much larger sense of entitlement in those who feel they should not be attacked simply by wishing not to be attacked.
3 Likes
Personally I did not think quantum cores needed to be added to structures in hisec, it was even more incentive not to bother with structures for small indy players. This will reduce the potential targets for war decs even further.
At this point Mining ganking is fine, indy, DST, BR ganking is fine, freighter ganking needs adjustments at the ship level and BS MWD being possible as a fitting option would help here.
Consequences to gankers with lack of access to NPC stations is needed, perhaps having a temp ban to dock after a criminal act could do it. We want gankers to have to put a structure up so they can be blapped back by those with the attitude to do so.
1 Like
Presenting this as a PVP vs PVE argument is missing the point entirely. Iām a PVE player. I think ganking isnāt just good for the game but essential to it. Destruction keeps the prices of the materials i mine and the components/modules i find in cans/loot drops high.
Yes all PVP players will support ganking. However id say the bulk of PVE players support it as well so framing the issues as PVE v PVP issue is just not helpful.
2 Likes
Iā¦ didnt expect to us to agree on that point. Ok cool, yeah +1 there.
1 Like
And this definitely isnāt true.
I agree with you here, coining it as PVE vs PVP is incorrect, there is destruction and I thtink that PvE has got better and harder, the Diamond rats are the best example then the Trygs which are pretty lethal.
I thought before having my year long break that this was an error and seeing hisec now, I think that even more.
It is more nuanced than that, I gave details of a study I did on a type of ganking and how destructive it was to the victims. That was real data and the only hole was whether my methods of ascertaining activity might have missed some of them, but it was prettty bleak for scam webber bump ganking. I am so glad that ended.
1 Like
Certainly another interesting angle on it.
I canāt say that has been my experience though I canāt say how encompassing it is - the corps Iāve been in probably half of what Iād say were āproperā PVPers as in go out of their own volition to find kills, etc. werenāt in favour of ganking and wouldnāt get involved with it. Few of the PVE centric players Iāve encountered have been OK with ganking - one of the reasons some came out to wormhole life with us was to get away from it - which ironically 1-2 aside who were strictly no combat ended up with some of them coming around to doing a bit of ganking of their own and/or getting into PVP.
All I ever noticed previously was us disagreeing on pretty much everything so sorry if I missed it.
Cores are garbo.
1 Like
Yes i was actually just reading about this study when i got the notification of your reply and i have questions.
What was the sample size?
Between what periods were the samples taken?
What age range of characters were included and excluded from the study?
Was this information from zkill or other sources?
Did you include all ships? Or limit the scope of the study to players flying certain ships?
Did you limit the study to certain regions of space or include all of hi-sec?
One that has been pointed out time and time again in this thread. Glad you are finally reading what myself and others have been saying for near 1900 posts in this abomination of a thread
I am doing this from memory:
30 victims
About a year
Did not assess this but it was a good range of different people
Yes the information was on Zkill of the victim
It was freighters or JFās in terms of the victims
Hisec as it was based on the activities of a cerrtain hisec web scam bumper.
He had a thread in C&P where he was talking about his escapades too and it is a player I happen to know and like.
Bear in mind that this type of loss has a self-blame aspect as well as anger at CCP for the dumb mechanics which was unlimited time bumping. It was because of that aspect that it was a good sampleto look at.
CCP Falcon kept deleting it by the way, it was around the time that CCP were discussing the sale to PA, so it was not something they wanted them to notice imo.
1 Like
You are conflating āI donāt like to be gankedā with āganking is bad for the gameā. They are different things.
Itās perfectly possible for a player to be pissed off they got ganked and move to a wh to avoid yet still understand the concept that the destruction keeps the economy ticking over
Not sure where you are coming from there - Iāve not disagreed with it when it was posted before - I was just trying to move the thread somewhat along a more constructive line.
It is perfectly possible but not what Iāve experienced personally - even if they understood the concept I wouldnāt say they were in favour of it. TBH a lot of more casual players who were just in it for PVE I donāt think understood or cared about the concept anyhow they just wanted to do their PVE and have a bit of fun.
1 Like
I am with you on that aspect, if you make people jump through so many hoops then they decide not to bother. Getting this balance right is key.
How many ganks would there be in a year? Do you really think 30 is a sample size you can draw any meaningful conclusions from? I certainly donāt.
This is the problem. You frame it as a study when in actually fact it was 30 minutes on zkill with your pre existing biasās in play.
Yes I do, your opinion is different, but CCP Falcon kept deleting my posts where I talked about it so it was evidently something they did not want known at the time.
You are being insulting there. My bias is that ganking is part of the game.
1 Like
Where Iām coming from is that
ācertainly another interesting angle on itā comes across as thoughtful surprise. Something someone would say encountering a new piece of information. Which given the discussion in this thread would seem odd right? Because its not new information.
I was just trying to prod things back towards something at least vaguely constructive.
So a sample which is more than likely less than 1% of the total amount of ganks in year can be considered representative of the game as a whole? If anyone made that argument to you would you take it seriously? I mean come on man. Have a bit of self awareness.
And no I donāt think what i said was insulting. Everyone has their pre-existing biasās which impact how they view things. And presenting a 30 sample quick look see as if its a meaningful āstudyā exposes yours.