Is it allowed to abuse the forum moderation flags?

Issues, Workarounds & Localization General Issues
22

Before LSG was spamming, the system might have been a bit too lenient, where it was hard to flag people and get the spam removed. Then something changed and now it seems it is way too easy to flag posts to hide them.

I’m pretty sure you guys mentioned at some point, that the “confidence” of characters varies and changes depending if someone is legitimately flagging compared to just flagging in an attempt to annoy someone else. What happened to this system?

Basically, flags should have a weight associated to it, depending on the person flagging and the person being flagged.

23

One problem we now have is we don’t even know if you are reading this, or if CCP takes this seriously (even if you say they do, do they really?). We simply don’t know. At least, I don’t know, but this isn’t the first time someone has raised the issue.

I now have the additional problem of I can’t get rid of the notifications that my messages were hidden by “the community”, unless I manually open each and every notification, which really wastes my time. Is the person who decided to spam me with these notifications going to face any consequences for their abuse of the system? Are they even going to receive a warning, or will they simply feel free to do this?

I’m sure that you do not want me to respond by flagging each and every one of their messages, and I haven’t done so - but at the same time, that kind of implies CCP should do something to address this.

To repeat myself, ONE person should not have the power to unilaterally flag another person’s message. It’s absurd that “the community” is actually just a single person.

I also take issue with the fact that messages are hidden at all - even if my messages are not the ones hidden. There have been many times that I’ve tried to read a forum thread, and I have to go and unhide each and every one of the flagged messages, which many times should not have been flagged at all.

If a message is truly abusive, or spam, it should be DELETED by an official moderator. Average forum users should not have this power.

When messages were being flagged (not just mine, by the way), I could see the message pop up in the thread, and then it was instantly hidden. This shows that there was no moderator reviewing the decision, even though it says this will occur. One person was sitting there flagging every post without regard for content. You simply cannot have a forum in which any user can click on any post and decide to “hide” it - your forum will have serious problems if everyone starts doing this.

One idea I’ve always had, that I’ve never seen in any forum, is to allow the original poster of a thread to BAN people from their thread. This would make it difficult for trolls to troll someone else’s thread, and people would be able to self-moderate the threads they create. A lot of these flame wars and harassment concerns would disappear if the original poster was the moderator of their thread.

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24

The current system hides a post at first flag,
unless it’s “Something Else”.

At least that’s what I figured out.

You might not like me saying this,
but unless there’s a paywall keeping the trash out,
no matter what else CCP does,
it will only get worse.

Being able to post should be a priviledge, not free.
Not counting NPQA, which always has been free.

25

@ISD_Dorrim_Barstorlode

Any thoughts on this?

https://forums.eveonline.com/t/l4-missions-need-rewards/165915/156?u=aiko_danuja

The same person in another thread now flagged this for “spam”. The original poster asked for free isk from CCP. I said no, they don’t need free isk from CCP. Then this whiteknight carebear hid my post for “spam”. Clearly, this individual (“the community”) needs to face some kind of consequence for blatant and prolonged abuse of the moderation system. Or should we just start marking every post they make as “spam”? I mean, if there’s not going to be any consequence for such behavior?

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26

You can call some friends and “spam” him back.

27

Yes, I could, of course - that’s my point. I would think we would want to avoid that, and address the fact that people are abusing the automated moderation, and have been for quite some time - but there should be little tolerance for that. This may be a PvP game, but forum moderation abuse crosses the line in my opinion into a real-life EULA breech. If I’m wrong though, just let me know, we can start playing forum PvP games all day long, I guess that could be fun… ?

Perhaps I should be a moderator?

28

Nah you are right no one aside moderators should have such power alone

29

Indeed.

30

@ISD_Dorrim_Barstorlode

See this? Idiot is flagging me for spamming my own thread!

https://forums.eveonline.com/t/how-does-eve-lore-explain-miners/168090/6?u=aiko_danuja

31

Maybe they want us to riot.

Edit:

Hold on.
That’s not how they operate.

They’re doing nothing on purpose.
When it escalates too far, they step in.
When it doesn’t … they don’t.

That’s how CCP always operated and the exCSM who did an AMA actually mentioned this as well. There’s plenty of evidence for this, so why should it be any different here?

What’s weird though is that it appears that the ISD do nothing either.

Maybe GD is a combat zone?

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32

You are intentionally, and quite poorly, trolling the Eve Lore board.

If you don’t want to get flagged, maybe you should stop doing that.

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33

You mean, by asking how EVE lore portrays miners? It’s not trolling if I’m actually curious about the answer, or is it? What is trolling?

The definition of trolling is rather vague, and your accusation of “quite poorly” trolling doesn’t really help your case - am I trolling or not? Is there a way to troll “well” which meets your standards? I’ve heard it said that trolling is like fishing, fishing for responses - so in that vein, asking any question at all, or saying anything intended to try and obtain a response, might reasonably fall under the category of trolling.

You know, in my line of business within EVE, we really are rather interested in miners - so it would seem that someone like me might naturally inquire about them. We actually have an entire website dedicated to the discussion of miners and mining culture, so asking how they are represented in lore is not trolling, as its a genuine question. That’s the perfect opportunity for people to present their view of how mining is reflected in lore - whereas you want to censor that discussion and prevent it from occurring.

Are you sure YOU aren’t trolling there and here? Besides, are YOU the moderator of this forum? Should YOU be the one who decides who should and shouldn’t post what and where? Maybe I should start appointing myself as the moderator of you? Should I do that? I’ll just go to every post you make, and if I disagree with it, then I will call it trolling and flag it. For example, if you say that people don’t need permits, that permits aren’t part of EVE lore, then I will simply say that’s trolling and untrue and flag you. I will say that you are griefing new players and leading them awry with your no-permit scam. Then you can come here, and you can message @ISD_Dorrim_Barstorlode and we will see whether he thinks one person should have the ability to unilaterally hide any post they dislike.

Sound fair?

You know, it should be possible to have a difference of opinion and disagree and even dislike people, without abusing the forum moderation system.

34

This is an in-character post. You posted it on an out-of-character board. It’s not the only one, even after being corrected.

When you’re ready to respect the very basic guidelines for RP, come back and see us.

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35

Oh, am I too in character for you?

I’m sorry you are upset, but are you the moderator of the forum?

Can I be the moderator too? Are you ok with that, if I start flagging all your posts as spam?

Is there even a rule somewhere that states you cannot be “in character”?
Or did you just make that up?

I would think, if a new player really wants to roleplay as Minmatari, they would welcome the opportunity to meet a Khanid princess. What better opportunity to repent and be saved?

36

I think he means “Stop saying things that I don’t agree with.” Which seems to be the same message of most highsec carebears on the forums now-a-days.

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37

IT TRIGGERS ME WHEN SOMEONE SAYS SOMETHING I DON’T AGREE WITH!

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38

Not just on the forums either. I think the schools need to start teaching John Stuart Mill’s On Liberty - freedom of speech is more than just some abstract phrase or concept, it is the basis of intellectual growth. Censorship, or flagging disagreeable posts for ‘spam’, is the act of a weak minded individual who cannot handle dissenting opinions and worldviews.

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39

Rest assured I do read a ton of things on the forums, especially things that are flagged. My goal has always been transparent moderation, and if action is taken, I will say why. As for the rest of the thread, you only have my word that I’m bringing it up to people above me.

But seriously, don’t abuse the flag mechanic.

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40

No, I’m not, but I hope my point is well taken. It’s being abused, no doubt about that.

Personally, I think the best solution for forums is to allow the original poster to ban anyone they want from their thread. If someone is trolling you, just kick them out of your post. Other people really don’t need to be involved, unless an official moderator is needed for something egregious. I’ve never seen that tried on any forum, but maybe CCP will be an innovator and I’ll become world famous for solving forum moderation problems! However, letting anyone self-moderate anyone is bound to lead to some issues.

41

I don’t envy your duties, but I greatly appreciate all the volunteer work you and the rest of the ISD do.

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