Is second Alpha experience viable F2P?


(Tom Khamez) #1

I played EVE for a couple of weeks a year ago, but left as soon as I found out that the Alpha experience was a joke.

With the recently expanded skill set for Alphas, it is clear that I will still not be able to do any form of resource generation, crafting, or trading competitively, but for PvP it appears a bit more complicated.

If I focus my skills on frigates, destroyers, and Cruisers, will I be able to do 1-on-1 PvP competitively within the Alpha limitations or will I be flapping around with clipped wings?

Last time around, CCP showed that they either were totally clueless about F2P or that Alpha was more intended as a marketing gimmick than to offer F2P as a viable option. Once bitten, twice shy, so I really want to be sure that I don’t waste my time (and money) on EVE if they have no intentions of offering a viable F2P option.


(Wander Prian) #2

You are still going to lose to people who have better knowledge of the game mechanics. The skills are going to give an edge to a omega-player still, but the biggest reason you are going to lose ships is not having the knowledge of how things work. Alpha clones are viable, but you still have to learn the game first.


(Tipa Riot) #3

What’s a viable F2P option for you? And why is F2P important if you think about investing money anyway?


(ISD Sakimura) #4

Don’t get me wrong but EVE is still very much a Subscription based game. Yes, you have the option of playing it for free but doing so you accept the limitations that comes with it. As Alpha Clone you can still experience the primarily activity which is PvP at it’s core. You should look at it as an unlimited trial period which you do not see anywhere else. I personally would find it insulting to call EVE a F2P game, as many F2P MMOs are basically also “Pay2Win”. So if you have to call it something, call it “subscription-based game with option to play for free”. You have been able to play EVE for “free” for a long time although it did/does require commitment from you.


(Do Little) #5

Eve has a player driven economy and a lot of the processes are still passive. Once a research or production job is started you can logout and it will proceed on its own. Likewise, once you have listed something on the market you don’t need to be logged in for other players to buy it. If Alphas could participate in this game play to any extent, veteran players would create an army of them and wreck the economy. Industrial activity will almost certainly remain behind the paywall.

The Alpha skillset is designed to encourage group gameplay. You have everything you need to participate in fleet PVP. Alliances like Brave and Karmafleet welcome Alphas and have doctrines they can fly.

Alphas have been viable for solo PVP since day 1 as demonstrated by CCP Rise with his Vegas Alpha character last year: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yWuk7GDZsqs

As with most things in Eve, player knowledge and experience is a lot more important than character skill.


(Tom Khamez) #6

Guys, thanks for your replies.

I am a F2P player by conviction, which means that I will never (as a matter of principle) pay a subscription, but it does not mean that I do not want to support the developers of the games I play. Except for SC, I have not and will not pay more than EUR 35 for a game - either as pay-to-play or reasonable micro transactions.

A viable F2P option is like Planetside 2, where you have subscribers and you have F2P players that can do the exact same things, but since subscribers earn certs 3-4 times faster than a F2P player, the F2P player has to focus on playing, say, an infiltrator and a medic, instead of maxing out all types. And, the F2P player will not have enough certs to focus on more than a couple of types of vehicles/planes.

A non-viable F2P option is like Mortal Online, which is an unlimited very restricted trial. A F2P player has to be something of a masochist to play a game with full looting but only being able to reach 2/3 of the damage output and hitpoints of a subscriber. Like bringing a letter opener to a gun fight.

As I said, I tried the first Alpha experience and that was very close to Mortal Online-style F2P.

I do not expect anything to be handed to me, and, needless to say, I will spend the necessary time to find the strengths and weaknesses within the limitations of a F2P account. But, as a “professional” F2Per, I am very much aware of what I bring to the table, so if the game company does not offer me something in return (viable F2P) then I go elsewhere. There are plenty of gigs in town, so I can find other games where I can progress and accomplish goals without being a defenseless punching bag.

The reason why I brought up the question to begin with is, that I am intrigued with EVE, but given our mutual history, CCP now needs to show me that they are committed to offering viable F2P before I commit to spending my time and my money on them.

@Do Little

There are many types of F2P players. At one extreme you have what I call the Gimme Nomads, who will never pay a cent for anything and they will stay as long as they can get free stuff. When free stuff starts to dry out or the going gets tough, then the Gimme Nomads get going. At the other extreme you have Religious F2Pers, like me; the max amount the individuals are willing to pay may be higher or lower than my EUR 35 limit, but none of us feel that any game is worth a subscription (a principle, not necessarily a question of being able to afford it or not).

The only thing CCP demonstrated with the first Alpha experience was that they expected F2Pers to be sheeple with no ambitions for anything else than living on hand-outs. Religious F2P players did not start an Alpha account or left within the first few weeks, while the Gimme Nomads hung around for a few months more. It failed miserably. That is why they have now made extensive modifications to the Alpha experience.

This time around, CCP would like to appeal to F2P players who both contribute to the game economy and to the real economy of CCP even though it will not be as subscribers. Time will tell if they have found the right recipe this time.

I hope they have.


(Kathern Aurilen) #7

When I look at Steam, the first thing I check is the free to play sections. I loves me some free too.

But just because it’s free doesn’t make it good. Also I have paid money for pure crap. At least you can see what EvE has to offer.

What are you bringing to the table? I’m an alpha too, I have played for FREE since the alpha started and I know I haven’t brought much at all. They are not blasting us with ads to make money, no hoop jumping from installing crap on our computer or phone from sponsors, no having to watch lame ads on a timer. They are not grinding alphas for cash.

I would gladly sub, but I don’t get much game time so it’s not worth it to me at the moment. But in saying all that I’m very happy as an alpha. I can fly some of my favorite ships, join in for activities, chat with friends.

I refuse to play the MicroTransaction games. Those games are built to FORCE a payment. I hate those kinds of games. What I truly love about eve is that EVERYTHING can be bought in game, skill injections, game time and everything, all you have to do is play the game and make in game money and pay for it.


(Loutro Fift) #8

Pure speculation.

I think you need to move on. Your expectations are exceeded only by your ego.


(Tom Khamez) #9

@Kathern Aurilen

You are absolutely right, there is a lot of crap out there. And, with Steam Early Access, Kickstarter, and the likes we have seen a flood of low quality games over the past couple of years. It is very cool, that game developers with a good idea but who lack investors can find the funding to make a fantastic game, but for every successful, cool indie game there are nine others that end up being cash grabs. Earlier, game investors would filter out those companies/developers who had a very good idea, very good intentions, but lacked the skills and professionalism to have any chance of finishing their game. Now, we have no idea whether we are wasting our money on supporting an indie game.

I have wasted money on games that turned out to be a disappointment as well, and I have a handful of early access games I am following in the hope one or more might turn out to be cool games (I have supported some financially, but some will have to prove that they are able to move forward before I take out the pig skin).

If you are one of the Alpha success stories, that is great. Hat off to you. You have more patience than I do :wink:

But, as a F2P player you have actually brought something valuable to the table as well - just not your cash. You have contributed to the market in a positive way, by creating demand for ships and components - regardless of whether you have been able to earn enough ISK yourself to replace lost hardware or not. Actually, your presence in New Eden is of very value to CCP, because if the game becomes so depopulated that you can fly through 5-7 sectors of high- and low-sec without meeting other players, then going to null sec would not sound that scary and that could be the beginning of the end. No, the sky is not falling, but feet on the ground (or bodies in space) is important for any MMO. Some game companies realize this, others have no clue.

@Loutro Fift

That is an opinion, I have to respect that.

But, if you see yourself as some sort of official opinion judge, then maybe you should look in the mirror before you personally attack others.


(Tipa Riot) #10

EvE is not a classic F2P game, though you don’t have to pay a single coin to have the full experience. Alpha is lazy mans unlimited trial, but you can pay for Omega using ingame currency (ISK). Making ISK is easy if you are clever and/or don’t mind grinding.


(Tom Khamez) #11

It seems to me (from “researching” EVE as part of the decision process) that it has been years since it was more than a just a wet dream for a new player to reach a point where they could Plex their account for full “free” game time and with the spiralling Plex prices it is turning into a bigger and bigger pie in the sky. That you might be able to reach free play in 3-4 months was a sales point, but that you might be able to reach free play in 3-4 years is definitely not!

And you do have to pay coin to get started, as an Alpha the earning potential is extremely low compared to as an Omega. Even if you start skiling up as an Alpha, I just don’t see how you would be able to make it to your first 500 Plex within a reasonable time.


(Tipa Riot) #12

EvE is a PvP game, including and especially the market. If PLEX price in ISK rises that means nothing else than it gets easier to earn ISK and more people can afford buying PLEX ingame.

The EvE Omega deal is simple, pay the sub or let somebody else pay for you, but then you have to compensate this player with ISK. Supply and demand.


(Tom Khamez) #13

I don’t see how earning potential for new players is moving upwards with the Plex price inflation, which I think is largely driven by the old veteran players with more ISK and Plex than they know what to do with. For noobs, we are talking the same mission agent rewards and the same drops from ratting wherever is survivable for a low-skill toon.

It’s OK, but we have to agree to disagree on that one.


(Kathern Aurilen) #14

I play pretty safe. I don’t think I have lost 5 t1 ships since the alpha program started 6months ago. Most of those losses we’re from RL pulling me away while I was in space.

Market wise, I’m not a big player. I buy the odd ammo pile and the and mod. I use most of the parts I get off rats.

Yes free players are part of the the universe, I wouldn’t want to be part of an empty Galaxy.


(Boldly Gone) #15

Yes. They expect power users to pay for infrastructure and maintenance, for all the devs and even the accountants and backoffice. Quite easy. Those who don’t want to pay get way less content.
BUT: Everybody can subscribe. If you don’t want to subscribe because of any principles and if you are not happy with being alpha, I suggest to follow your own words:

Adios, muchacho.

Oh, how I “like” those with high demands and low public commitment. This post sounds like a blackmail without hostage…


(Keno Skir) #16

What? Do you want free to play or do you want to spend some money?

You’re being confusing.

You’re wrong. I teach new players to easily PLEX their accounts on an almost daily basis.

Mirror looks fine to me but thanks for the heads up.


(Tom Khamez) #17

@Boldly_Gone, @Keno_Skir

Gratz, you got another post under your belt.

If you feel you have contributed in a useful manner, good for you.

In case your are not trolling, but you actually cannot understand how an F2P player can talk about paying for something that is not a subscription, then check this out: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Free-to-play


(Keno Skir) #18

Calm down miner.


(Boldly Gone) #19

If you want to buy a Porsche bus, your local Porsche dealer will tell you that there is no chance in getting one because it’s no business area for Porsche. Now you can call Porsche inflexible and arrogant, but I’m pretty sure they won’t change their business because they want to stay true to their brand.
So as you are obviously very unhappy with subscribing because of your very own principles, you are at the wrong game if you still want full content. Go get yourself your Autobus elsewhere.


(Solonius Rex) #20

Wow.

Just wow.

Thats because you limit yourself to one aspect of the game.

Take a look at this recent article, for example:

The thing about EVE is that its an open sandbox that gives the player the freedom to play their way. It takes effort to make it in eve, as in any game, but if youre going to be lazy and expect the game to just hand you everything you want and allow you to play on the same level as someone who pays a subscription, then sorry, but i dont think you will last long as a “professional” F2P player with that sort of attitude.

The reason why i say that is because you seem to be cojmpletely clueless about what the game has to offer. Are you under the assumption that an Alpha player cannot join a large Nullsec Corporation or something? And what makes you think that 1v1 PVP is even a thing on EVE online? You do realize that this game is an MMO, and therefore players will interact and form groups and fight alongside each other, right? That there is no pocket of space where you are disconnected from the rest of the universe, and where you can have a 1v1 duel with no chance of anyone ever interceding?

If you dont want to learn about the game, thats fine, i wont force you to. But youre the F2P professional, so you should know that theres a reason why people Sub, and theres a gap that needs to be closed by F2Pers. Otherwise, a sub is meaningless. You can do everything competatively as an Alpha, but you just seem to be clueless about everything, while bashing CCP for being clueless about F2P.