Poor Ventures taking a pounding!
Someone is definitely focusing them, for whatever reason.
My rough glance had about 3/4 of them in NPC corps.
Id expect you would be much more likely to get more valuable mining modules/ore off the larger ship classes, but they ofc also need more investment in the gank to take out.
Are these kills from all of HS?
Are these specifically ganks, or also include wardecs?
Ventures are not only more popular - probably because they are the only ship alphas, and newer players can fly - but also the only mining ship you can reliably take down solo especially as a newer ganker. Once you are near maxing out your Catalyst you can solo a few of the bigger ships when untanked in 0.5-0.6, but Ventures still offer a much more plentiful target.
The data fits what one would expect - the frequency of you being exploded by gankers is proportional to how much EHP you have and therefore the cost of doing so. There are other ways to avoid being exploded, but if you are just going to rely on tank then here is strong evidence it is a very effective strategy.
This is brilliant actually well played, a creative none salt approach at balance. They would have to be limited to citadelâs that they themselves own thou, or they would just dock up in random ones, forcing players to kill all citadels in the area instead of just theirâs.
Itâs actually a very poor idea that demonstrates a lack of understanding of the game mechanics. Alts exist, and the suicide character can be supplied by an alt in a different corp (who, not being negative in sec status, can dock in NPC stations without limit). The fact that the suicide character canât dock just means that their expendable pod is easier to kill, but itâs not like that actually matters.
Game mechanics can change, they are not set in stone one has to consider all aspects instead of living in the narrow.
What you said is true thou about altâs supplying shipâs to the ganking char, but this would still cause more work and hassle for gankerâs meaning they would have to work harder for their isk and killmails which is not a bad thing as at the moment its rather way to easy.
The difficulty would be making it more challenging/less rewarding for gankerâs without making it safe for people living in highsec.
An option would be that any ship that is killed in high sec has a higher % of modules destroyed compared to low and null, balancing the isk reward for this activity without effecting the target at all as they are still loosing just as much as before.
âBalancingâ something by making it a pain in the ass to deal with is not good game design. Having to use alts to provide new ships doesnât have any chance of failure or add anything interesting to the experience for either side, it just adds another hoop to jump through.
And I strongly disagree that things are too easy. Itâs almost impossible to successfully suicide gank a smart player and make a profit. Only stupid players die to suicide ganks, and we should celebrate their deaths instead of changing the game to make them safer.
Fair enough, but you not only have to be a smart player to avoid gankâs you need a webbing alt, as I have tried before to see what itâs like and you can bump a freighter for years on end if you really wanted, if the right rat is on gate at the time you could shoot it and bring in an army of web scrams, dooming your little ship + the freighter you have been bumping.
Or you could just obey the simple rules on not putting excessive value in your freighter and be immune to profitable ganking. If they try to bump you then you just log off and come back another time, they canât commit any act of aggression against you without throwing away ISK.
The people who get their freighters suicide ganked are the idiots who think that just because their freighter has Xm3 of cargo capacity they have to fill the whole X. Accept that youâre going to have empty space and gank immunity is easy.
I still donât see why is docking at -10 sec stat in highsec allowed. It doesnât make sense - you are getting messages you are enemy of the empire everytime you jump or undock so when you are enemy why they allow you to dock?
And no, ganking is easy. About all of the PvP ganking is the easiest out there.
What makes it easy:
no need to train anything but a guns - small SP requirements
almost nothing else to do than overheat, lock and F1 - other form of pvp requires to know about enemy ship, whether to orbit, at which distance, pulling drones that are taking dmg, targetting enemy drones, watching ppls who need to repair on watch-list etc. etc. the only thing that you might need to learn is to approach if the target is not on the 2500 for whatever reason (in which case the gank is usually called off anyway)
extremely easy to multibox - good luck multiboxing lowsec gatecamp fleet
victims doesnât fight back
Ganking itself is super easy, only when you want to do that alone using multiboxing it is much harder (unless you use cheats). Similarly, since ganking bigger targets like freighters requires 10+ ships, it might be hard to get so many players. But thats true for any activity/pvp.
Also, it is cheap. Imo, living with -10 in highsec is exploit. I am doing it myself because I cannot afford to pay 150mil every 3 days to fix my sec on all the alts I use and I do not want to farm the tags myself. But I think it is wrong, you should not be able to live in highsec stations while at -10 (or -5 down to -10 to be more precise). The fact it is possible makes ganking cheap and makes ganking for profit so easy. Those with -10 should be forced to use a player-owned citadel (which can be wardecced and destroyed) or move their base into lowsec.
This is only small nuisance anyway, it is ultra easy to just move the base into citadel. That you cannot defend it? Your problem.
Logging off wonât help you, unless the gankers arenât new into this (and they really intent to gank you, sometimes the bumping is just for fun before they find really profitable target) they will have combat probes ready and agress you with another alt before your ship disappears. And it makes super easy for them to loot you without worry about antigankers.
Logging off will help you because your ship will disappear from space and you can come back in a few hours. This gets you out of the bump and allows you to move on. Probing you or aggressing you is pointless, you canât be killed profitably.
Because the stations are owned by corporations, and those corporations are happy to take your money.
Also, banning docking would have negligible effect because alts can provide replacement ships and being unable to dock your pod between ganks is irrelevant when your pod costs zero ISK to replace.
And no, ganking is easy. About all of the PvP ganking is the easiest out there.
No, profitable ganking is virtually impossible. Itâs trivially easy to keep the value of a ship below the cost to suicide gank it and thus be immune to it. In an alternate universe where EVE only has smart players suicide ganking would be effectively nonexistent, there would be no profitable targets and it would only be used for the occasional act of spite against a player that canât be attacked any other way.
The ONLY reason suicide ganking works is that there is a sufficient supply of ****ing idiots floating around. But idiots shouldnât be considered in balance decisions. It would be like demanding a nerf to lasers because the Zealot can easily kill a completely unfitted battleship in a 1v1. The solution is not to nerf the things that kill stupid players, itâs for stupid players to stop sucking at life.
Ok I admit I didnât try this myself. But CODE. is ganking freighters who logged off and I read that when you log out the ship is in space for 1 minute still even without any timer. In Uedama specifically both CODE main ganking groups (or multiboxers to be precise) have combat probes deployed on their alt. 1 minute is enough for them to scan you down and send 1 toon to attack you (if for any reason their gank fleet is not ready yet - if it is they can send the fleet) which then gives them another 30 minutes to finish the gank. And they can extend this window indefinitely.
But again, I am bottom tier ganker I didnât try this yet and I still need 2 months for t2 talos so I donât plan anytime soon anyway. But from what I heard logging off wonât help you. CODE claims it in local
I said ganking is easy. So no idea what profitable ganking has to do anything with my statement. And no ganking for profit isn;t any way harder, it just takes a while to find a suitable target.
The only reason why suicide ganking works is because it is cheap and easy to do. Profitable ganking is just one of the about three ganking activities and I believe its actually in minority (mainly because it takes time, there arenât so many âidiotsâ (as you call them) who would be profitable to gank actually. The game is designed so the ganking is doable and there are many players willing to do that even if they wonât make anything out of it just for fun. So even if everyone kept the cargo value low enough it wouldnt be profitable and everyone mining in procurer the ganks would still happen anyway. And btw, since you need just 2 thrashers to kill most t1 industrials, the profit begins at cargo value of 20 basically. Small profit for sure but profit anyway.
JNot really. It actually reduces risk on the part of miners mechanically. Risk-reward is about choice. What choices do you make given the choices others make; both gankers and other miners. If most other miners are going for yield and you (indefinite you) can pick the strategy of using a proc/skiff IF you want to be ganked less often and not watch local like you would in NS.
Mechanically removing risk reduces the importance of choice and strategy. As risk declines youâd move towards yield. Youâd see greater uniformity of fits. Emergence would go away. Spontaneous order goes away. Weâd head right into equilibrium which is boring.
The idea of mechanically reducing risk is a BAD idea.
If you are going to try logging off do immediately on the chance they arenât prepared to aggress you. And if that is your best strategy then you almost surely made a sequence of bad decisions.
Indeed most gankers have a criminal sec status. So they use an alt for logistics. In fact, these alts probably do logistics for the entire group. Buying stuff. Moving stuff. Putting it on contracts and/or handing stuff out. That is actually alot of work when you think about it. These guys facilitate content when we get right down to it.
The âganking is easyâ is a statement by people who havenât had to run a ganking operation and are ignorant.