Isnt it finally time to NERF Incursions?

(Clancy Davis) #61

I investigated this once. It was fascinating, although stinky.

(DeMichael Crimson) #62

Wow, talk about being biased, I don’t know if you actually believe that malarkey or if you just like being the Devil’s Advocate.

Either way, your conclusions are definitely incorrect. If CCP removed Concord from High Sec systems, this game would probably lose at least 1/2 if not 2/3rds of it’s current playerbase very quickly. That in itself would probably cause CCP to shut down the servers.

In all my years of playing this game the only ones I’ve seen propose that idiotic notion are those who suffer from Concord’s justice. I’ve never seen mission runners, explorers or industrialists request the removal of Concord. Quite the opposite, I’ve seen them request that Concord be made more efficient in response time.

(yellow parasol) #63

No one’s talking about all of highsec? We’re talking about incursion systems, which is what, 3-5 systems already barely of use for the residents? You don’t get to talk about other people’s biases at all, when you’re the one who apparently has a bias prevent him from keeping context. i keep trying to be neutral, you otoh keep trying to tell me i’m biased, ignoring that it’s you who is biased, projecting it onto me.

Would you mind taking a good look at yourself first? Thanks!

(Cade Windstalker) #64

You’d think the fact that this argument hasn’t worked for the last 3-4 years (or however long it’s been since CCP fixed the old Incursions) would clue people into the fact that it’s not actually true… Incursions result in a lot of dead ships, a fair number of those to ganks.

It’s a temporary change to the topography of the game. If you can run Level 4s you can go get another Battleship hull, fit it out, and run Incursions with it for better ISK than you were making running L4s. If you’re not doing L4s it’s a good reason to try other things, whether that’s starting up a new agent chain or trying out something like Exploration.

Things that change up the game a little temporarily do in fact have value believe it or not.

Also, funny fact here, because it changes the belt-rat spawns it helps penalize miner botting and probably helps CCP detect it, since if someone leaves their bot running and an incursion spawns the bot is going to die in short order.

(DeMichael Crimson) #65

Heh, you are far from being neutral. In fact you’re very aggressive in not only instigating, but also actively encouraging tension in multiple threads. And yes I’m biased towards those who think they have the right to constantly tell other players their viewpoint is biased if it’s not in agreement with their own opinion.

By the way, it doesn’t matter what type of PvE content is being conducted in High Security, the main reason it’s being done in High Security is because Concord is there. If that wasn’t the case then they’d be doing it in Low and Null Security space where the rewards are much larger.

(Black Pedro) #66

I love when people confidently assert facts without evidence nor address the main point.

Of course Incursions are incredibly safe. The fact that incursion boats are famously some of the blingiest out there is all the proof you need. Incursion runners have correctly assessed the risk vs. reward and concluded that flying the most expensive stuff they can to eek out a little more ISK/h is worth it as the chance of losing your ship is so very low. I don’t blame them for that, but let’s not pretend there is any significant risk associated with running highsec incursions as Nyx described above. In fact, CCP has purposely gone out of their way to make them as safe and PvP-free as possible so there is no need to deny the fact Incursions are very safe as they are working as intended.

But that isn’t the main point and I don’t expect them to be made more dangerous. Incursions are old. They have not been iterated on in forever and the speed at which they are run now means they pay much more than when they were released. They are long overdue for some developer attention.

You would think those that regularly run incursions would be the ones shouting the loudest that their activity deserves some attention from CCP and the content expanded/freshened up. Well it seems that whether they like it or not, new group PvE is coming to Empire space in a few months and I don’t see how Incursions cannot be affected by that, either by receiving a significant update and rebalancing or being replaced entirely with some new form of group PvE content.

(yellow parasol) #67

And now you completely avoid the reason why you actually reacted to my post! you wrote nonsense, i point out that you wrote nonsense, now you just take a step aside and behave as if you reacted about something else!

Stop projecting!
Stick to the topic!
No sidestepping!
Admit your mistake, stop trolling and we can move forward!

There we were. Let’s go on.

No one but you, yourself, was talking about all of highsec! We’re talking about a few systems out of thousands, tradehubs even excluded!

So if CONCORD isn’t there and they’d go to low instead … what’s the problem with removing CONCORD from incursion systems?

Do you not see how your logic is now working against you? how the hell did you come up with this? you made a point for it, not against it!

  • When CCP removes CONCORD from incursion systems, you claim the incursionistas will to go lowsec.
  • Removing CONCORD from a highsec system is practically equal to turning it into lowsec.
  • Therefore they do not need CONCORD there anyway, because they could handle lowsec as well… as you say.
  • If they go to lowsec then, then finally someone would run incursions in lowsec.

So… what rational thought was there hidden behind your feelings about this? would you mind turning rational again first, before you respond? i’m sure i’d not be the only one who’d appreciate it.


(Kaelynne Rose) #68

I remember when Goons tried to smartbomb suicide an incursion fleet.

TiDi kicked in so hard they couldn’t use their capboosters and didnt get off enough smartbomb cycles with Concord unaffected by TiDi.

They didnt kill even 1 single Incursion ship.

People spent days before and after theorycrafting, even carebears, and determined that INCURSION SHIPS SHOULD have been destroyed from the attack.

Yet the amount of firepower/ships needed to gank said Incursion ships ACTUALLY CAUSE THEM TO BE INVINCIBLE due to TiDi and Concord.

You can be ignorant and lie if you want, but Incursion ships dont just get suicided often.

Add to that the CORP FRIENDLY-FIRE SAFETY switch to the fact that incursion bears are already in 1man corps usually.

Yeah, they INVINCIBLE. Basically.

Edit: this was years ago and due to CCPs published facts on how often Carebears quit after Leveling Their Raven, all these bitches crying in this thread probably didnt even know what eve was back when incursions got added or when Goons tried to gank them.

(Kueyen) #69

DeMichael_Crimson meant that if CONCORD didn’t matter to incursion runners, they’d run incursions in lowsec or nullsec instead.

But, of course CONCORD matters to incursion runners, because they don’t (or barely) run incursions in lowsec or nullsec. You’re managed to completely inverse his intent…

As to my opinion on the whole subject: people always counter the argument that nullsec is too safe by saying that it is players that made it safe. As far as I’m concerned, the exact same excuse is valid for Incursion running: it is safe because people made it safe.

And yes, I have run Incursions; Logistics in Vanguard sites, to be precise. It was a harrowing experience, that proved too intense for my tastes. So, imho, no, it is not finally time to nerf Incursions.

(Cade Windstalker) #70

I actually do have evidence, but its docs that are private to the communities that produced them so I can’t link them. Take that for what you will.

Sufficed to say Incursions produce a lot more losses than people think they do, and ganking is a bigger threat that people seem to think it is. The main reason you don’t hear about it more is because the communities don’t like to publicize it, and ganking is an intermittent threat rather than a consistent one since there are easier ways to make money in the game.

This is not accurate. Incursions have already gotten at least one major iteration which actually means that overall payouts now are lower than when they were released. Old Vanguard Incursions could hit as high as 200m an hour and could pretty easily sustain 170-180. These days the highest reasonably sustained level is 120-130 with bursts of 150.

Do you have a link to this supposed rumor or any kind of credible source? The last thing we heard out of CCP on any sort of PvE changes or new PvE content was that they were looking at changes to Null sites.

(Black Pedro) #71

It’s the famous ‘Empire Expansion’ of course and to quote CCP:

We are going all-in with the EVE Online winter expansion. Using all new capabilities (dynamic PvE etc.), we will create amazing new content in the universe. The heart of this expansion will be all about new content: New challenges, new rewards, new aspects of EVE to learn and explore in Empire space. Stay tuned for more info.

It was recently removed from no doubt in preparation for the more details that CCP Seagull said they would be giving us “in August” in her last dev video. Therefore, sometime this week a devblog will most probably drop and we will learn a lot more about this Empire expansion and what it means for Incursions.

There are also the CSM minutes due out this week, which may have some further insight on the “all-in” changes CCP says are coming.

(Cade Windstalker) #72

There’s nothing about new Empire anything in CCP Seagull’s video (rewatched just now just to be sure) and there’s nothing in that short paragraph you quoted that says there’s new PvE coming to Empire Space. It says they’re working more with the new PvE systems used in the Shipyards, and it says they’re doing new stuff in Empire Space, but there’s a period between those two sentences.

Given the current kerfuffle over Carrier Ratting it seems unlikely that CCP would be focusing on creating new PvE content just for High Sec.

Unless there was some different language on the Eve Updates page that I missed and is no longer visible I’m not really convinced here…

(Gerald Mardiska) #73

You are seriously misinformed. Terrible troll is terrible.

(yellow parasol) #74

I took his words as he wrote them. He claimed Incursioneers run incursions in highsec, because CONCORD is there. If there wasn’t CONCORD around, he claims that they’d go to lowsec. the logical end is that they don’t need CONCORD anyway. He did it upside down all by himself.

May I ask: How do, or did, they make it safe themselves? if that is the case, why would CONCORD be needed and why aren’t more being run in lowsec?

(Black Pedro) #75

You aren’t convinced that she went on stage at FanFest and promised the next expansion would feature new PvE content built with all their new content development tools for Empire space? I think you might be denying reality a little too much at this point given that is exactly what happened.

Well perhaps you’re right and they completely threw out their development roadmap and next big expansion idea just a couple months after announcing it. Seems unlikely to me, but we should know whether the development direction at CCP has become that scattershot shortly.

(Mina Sebiestar) #76

Low sec pays more and allow for more ppl on grid without affecting payments further more uroboros only reason to do them in low is there and chance to get his BPC.

That is only reason my group at the time had fleets go there,it is also possible that you know “locals” and with them say yes to your carebar fleet one of primary risk is of your back and you prolly gain intel that is there too.and that is only for short stay for uroboros drop, regular site i wouldn’t even do tried that 10 man VG fleet against 200 leet PVPer fleet i would get more lols if my guys went without tank in sites and just lol when our ship got alphad by NPC that way more fun really.

compared to if high sec dip it status every yellow stain underwear basement warrior would be there to shoot at incursion fleets i can only speculate it would be worse than low and carebear wonderland null sec space to actually run them in.

my guess it is more profitable for gankers to deal with incursion boats same like everyone else flying solo not aware, on their turf(we all know where that is) instead trying to use acc gates with enough man power against group of them that shoot back can ramp up tank as seen needed have logis and intel about every one of them that ever did ganking in 1st place.

Concord is there because of high sec and works same for every player it have nothing to do with any specific activity and it should stay put i dont see an issue with it you dont want to deal with concord fine there is 2/3 of eve waiting for you where concord dont operate have fun.

(yellow parasol) #77

actually new information based on experience! thank you! i’ll look into this closer first, before i respond. :slight_smile:

(Cade Windstalker) #78

Nah, that’s fair. Hadn’t see that (or didn’t remember those specific words at least). I’m still a little skeptical at this point but we’ll see, though I will point out that she still didn’t specifically say that the empire content would be group PvE related.

And no, this has never been about ‘denying reality’ just a healthy bit of skepticism around reading too much into too few words, because it’s not like the community has ever done that before, right? :wink:

(DeMichael Crimson) #79

Thank you, obviously his reply is typical for a troll response, constantly twisting everything around to portray it out of context in an attempt to validate his own viewpoint.

(Nyx Viliana) #80

For the record people gank incursion runners successfully all of the time. Anything from your classic gank when a pilot flies between focuses, to people interfering with fleets as well. I’ve seen several fleets die to smartbombs, others die to the logi squad being interfered with, and then people screwing with incursion mechanics.

A classic example of that is when someone goes into a TCRC in a frigate and takes MTACs. Without these the fleet cannot complete the site, because this site is dangerous it’s very hard near impossible to leave the site without losses. The battleship Outuni Masen will spawn in pairs regularly, the scrams will spawn if they are killed. The longer the fleet is held on grid by someone holding the MTACs the more prone the pilots are to making mistakes, and god bless the TCRC (My Favourite site) at the right points a pilot makes a mistake for 3 seconds and there goes 2-4B plus isk.

When I was with The Valhalla Project, at times they could lose over 5-20 ships in a week, to ganks, pilot error or just stupidity.