I’m excited to see what happens when cans start popping.
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Nothing is going to happen. The only people who will show up will be either yours, or those who low-key support you. The “opposition” will remain here, on the forums.
Like, can you even imagine being such a coward that when someone does something you find morally reprehensible in a PvP game, instead of getting a posse together to hunt them down for the sake of justice, you instead cry on the forums and/or beg the developers to intervene on your behalf? I seriously can’t wrap my mind around that. I’ve defended people in real life, where the stakes are much higher, for reasons that weren’t as significant as even this, and this is just a game.
I don’t know how these people go to sleep at night and think that they actually did good.
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catfight !!! 
I would support the idea of a “casket/sarcophagus” container that is only used for players, devs, or other members of the EvE community who have been confirmed to have passed away IRL. These would be the only cans in Molea that players couldn’t mess with; anything else would be fair game.
By that same reasoning, any attempts to take advantage of these cans for a player’s own benefit will get the same result as attempting to scam one of CCP’s charity events.
Take a look at Aiko’s early activity on Zkill and you’ll see she’s taken part in more than a few lowsec brawls. Whatever her flaws, she’s not a coward.
I would argue that Ultima Online’s player-killers weren’t ‘true evil’, because just killing another character is one of the ways the game was intended to be played. Other players responding by banding together in opposition was a fine example of emergent gameplay that I wouldn’t call morally good any more than player-killing was morally evil.
When it goes beyond that, though? When someone attacks the human at the keyboard instead of their character in the game? That’s where ‘evil’ starts to become an applicable term.
I fully support CODE.'s right to gank, rob, pod, bump, or otherwise aggress other in-game characters because that’s one of the core conceits of EvE. Where I personally draw the line is actions that extend beyond the game and attack the human being sitting behind the keyboard.
Targeting a site that holds the (virtual) remains of people who have passed away IRL crosses that line.
I fully recognize that it would be unrealistic for CCP to make Molea utterly inviolate because EvE’s players would inevitably figure out how to take advantage of it. The most I would expect from them is what I suggested above or something like it, and even that could prove to be unworkable.
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I can think of couple more suitable reasons and a more suitable objects these players should have been shooting at.
This looks more like a clueless child playing with matches in a wooden church.
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The people who crossed that line were the ones who decided to try to create an in-game memorial. Why didn’t these people decide to do something in Iceland, in the real world, where the Eve monument is?
Look around highsec - anchoring a can is the equivalent of graffiti. When somebody spray paints the side of a train IRL with a memorial to a deceased friend, what happens? Are the authorities expected to leave it there?
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When I read this I just thought CODE being CODE, and because it was Aiko it was more likely to be just hot air and intense bluster attention seeking.
But this post was especially cringe worthy as I did not really see people moaning that heavily about it.
Carry on guys…
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Is it not the case that a separation of game and life is one of EVE’s core tenets? While I agree with you in principle, the real-life dead should have never been memorialized in the game in this manner. Especially since there are better ways to do it, such as, for example, creating a Doomheim-like corporation, and memorializing a dead person by putting a character dedicated to them into it. That form of memorial wouldn’t be able to be touched. Additionally, the original intent of this “graveyard” was not for real-life people, but for in-game characters. In fact, I would venture to guess that the original creator of the graveyard foresaw the possibility that players would be able to interfere with the memorial, and was fine with it.
Your belief (“personally draw the line is actions that extend beyond the game and attack the human being sitting behind the keyboard”) is flawed, because players could so easily exploit that sentiment. Allow me to make an example for you:
There was a war I conducted one time, one of very many, against a possible ransom target. A few higher-ups put me into a chat window on the first day, and told me that one of their members had a heart condition, and that if I attacked them, he might suffer severe consequences in real life. I was morally-conflicted, but argued that if that’s the case, then that player shouldn’t play a game like EVE, and should be advised to leave immediately. They maintained their position, and begged me to not attack them, as I tried to explain that if I stopped, someone else would come along and repeat the process, and unlike me, they wouldn’t stop. I offered to advise them and fight on their behalf if someone messed with them in the future, for a fee. I believe there was no resolution, and like 98% of all carebear corporations I wardecced, they ended up disbanding within a few days.
Now imagine that every corporation has a sick person in it, at death’s door, and by attacking them, you would put the nails into their coffin. Surely this counts as an action that extends beyond the reach of a game, and affects someone in real life, right? But I’m sure you also see how this doesn’t reconcile with the nature and reality of this game.
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You are burning a random system in Khanid space?
The Amarr to Palas freighter traffic is going to get hit hard.
I jetisoned 160 corpses just at the monument, grotesque sight, but more fitting to capsuleer eyes.
Makes you think about passing time and effects of it.
The same way you do after spending all day, every day on the forum instead of playing the game?
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I would wholeheartedly support that decision, but I also recognize that just wouldn’t be feasible for some people and that Molea is the next best thing they have.
This, right here? This is brilliant. It would be a perfect way to honor deceased players without creating a mechanic that could be exploited.
You make an excellent point, and I agree with you that anyone with that type of heart condition really shouldn’t be playing EvE. There also exists the possibility those players were lying to you, and I wouldn’t think less of you or any other player that just didn’t believe them.
To clarify my words, ‘crossing the line’ was referring to actions committed for the purpose of hurting or upsetting another player, with little to no appreciable benefit for the player(s) committing the action.
Your actions wouldn’t qualify because you were after a ransom target, and upon being informed that another player had a heart condition showed more concern for their wellbeing than their corp-mates by urging them to find a game with less chance of causing a fatal heart attack.
Hell Dawn’s actions qualify because the Kairos Initiative’s players asked them to hold off attacking for just fifteen minutes while they anchored binette’s can, Hell Dawn agreed, then reneged on the agreement and specifically targeted the funeral ship to steal the dead player’s ‘coffin’ in what I can only see as an act of pure malice on their part.
Aiko went on to say that the death of binette’s player is irrelevant to her; what’s really important was that his character’s pod was killed after going AFK, and declared that this >3-year-old ‘sin’ against her precious, precious code meant she wouldn’t ‘permit’ binette to be interred in Molea’s cemetery. If that’s not a crass and malicious leap across the line separating gameplay and real-life then I don’t know what is.
Hell Dawn could have let the Kairos players have their fifteen minutes, or just disbelieved their claims and attacked immediately. Aiko could have played the role of the gracious “CODE. Space Princess” and treated the death of a fellow human being as the sorrowful occasion it is, forgiving whatever ‘sins’ binette committed and wishing him a peaceful rest. Or at least kept her proverbial mouth shut.
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What kind of tank are cans using these days?
And how would that be?
May I add? This has all been a heroic display of ego. My retinae will never be the same. I’d suggest everyone pat themselves on the back but for the certainty that is already done by those who could get their arms over their swollen heads.
golf clap
Hmmm… I just saw a post that someone jettisoned 160 corpses into Molea. I hope all those people aren’t dead IRL. I’m gonna assume that some people are treating this like a IRL graveyard and some people are just randomly dumping corpses there. The reason for this wardec so I’ve heard is someone being podded while being AFK, and CODE doesn’t like their corpse there on CCP’s PR site. Apparently they were AFK, not dead. If this is the case I could (and might) argue that CODE (they seem to use the word JihadSwarm for some reason, can someone explain?) are being moral in this sense by “cleansing Molea of illegal corpses and maintaining its status as a monument for players deceased IRL” (damn I’ve been reading a lot of Minerbumping after it stopped running :P)
But still, I would advice CODE to take the morally right side to only take corpses that are not corpses of players dead IRL. This would certainly bring a new light to CODE and encourage more miners to follow it.
Hmmm… also, Archer, since you have a knack for making events (hunt on Komi), if CODE does do the morally reprehensive thing of taking corpses of players dead IRL, I need an event to defend Molea. Help out. (also I don’t want to be a pure forum warrior clueless about eve warfare)
Also, it’s quite fitting that real life dead should be memorized in game this way, since it is part of eve (and not like that new fangled 2caracals v 2caracals thing) and is vulnerable. It feels quite like a cemetery with corpses, allows people to go there in game and watch it in awe, gives good PR for CCP, and most importantly, is vulnerable and in danger. like all things in eve should be.
There are a few assumptions here:
- that Aiko is doing this specifically to hurt other players (and not their in-game personas)
- that Aiko is being serious, and not merely acting like a caricature of a mustache-twirling movie villain in order to maintain an aura of infamy, and hope against hope that some players will offer up a shred of actual in-game resistance so that EVE can continue to be remotely interesting
I’d venture to guess that both of those assumptions are wrong, which would mean that Aiko’s actions are firmly within the confines of the game.
In fact, I’ll go on to say that if the desire is to act as an unapologetic, remorseless, “lawful-evil” aligned villain in the game, then Aiko’s goal is in fact noble, as it gives the community something to unite against. Contrast that to what I did, which was going after a group of players who begged me not to because I would be affecting them in real life, and doing that purely out of a desire for personal benefit (e.g. ransom money). I was, objectively, a much bigger scumbag by comparison, even if my advice to them was sincere, and my offer was reasonable.
And so, I’m utterly incredulous at the reality of this situation, in which a considerable chunk of the player base is so offended by Aiko’s actions, and yet refuses to band together and do something about it, save for making frothy-mouthed posts on the forum. This makes no sense to me, considering how easy Aiko is making it for them to justify action - practically begging for it by bending over, sphincter puckered, and inviting literally anyone with a modicum of testicular fortitude to have a go at it by turning around, gazing at them with longing eyes, and delivering a juicy slap to that exposed peach of an ass.
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JihadSwarm was the name of the first group that destroyed the graveyard back in 2008.
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