Of course not, can’t have a several Billion ISK ship have anything over a regular T2 hull… that would be OP and needs to be nerfed
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Some issues I have off the top of my head. I’m sure they’ve all been addressed but thought I would add my rudimentary 2 isk
T3Cs were built off of sleeper technology to be very powerful, unique and adaptable. “Balancing” a ship like that seems counter-intuitive.
Dropping to 4 subsystem slots and 3 subsystem in favour of being able to customise the look… I’m always in favour of function over fashion but that’s just me. I will miss the customisability.
Focusing on overheating is interesting… I understand that overheating is most useful in PVP and otherwise not used a whole heck of a lot. Oh well…
I always liked using my T3C to explore the nether regions of low and null sec. With increased sig radius and slower align time, I’m probably not going to risk that. But I suppose I will have to play around with rigging and what not to fully decide here. Either way, just more stuff I have to carry around with me, and as my Gu is presently sitting in low sec, I’ve got some planning to do.
Looking just at the Gu, there are still subsystems that most likely will not be used.
Anyways, I’m sure it will be fun. Just seems odd that a change to make HACs more desirable (Maybe?) still doesn’t achieve that effect. If you wanted to make HACs more desirable, well they are Heavy Assault Cruisers. Make them more assaulty, as in increase their offensive at the expense of defensive. Add in speed but increase sig radius. Then with T3Cs, make them double down on their chosen role, kind of like the T3Ds, but be a viable dual-purpose ship. For instance, pure Ewar boat or Ewar/defensive; Assault or Assault/speed boat; explore or explore/offensive. That’s kind of how I viewed the T3C before this change. Now… well now they are “balanced” I suppose.
CCP Lebowski18m
I’m not sure why you’d expect an offensive subsystem to give a tank, but the definitely are Defensive subs that do. Perhaps you mean that the maximum tank is not as big as it was previously?
I’m not sure why you think the two are different - You need 4 subsystems to use a T3.
And the lack of PG on the Drone Synthesis makes the difference between a ship that is usable and one that gets sold and replaced with something cheap and disposable.
High power
6x 250mm Railgun II
Medium power
1x 10MN Afterburner II
1x F-90 Compact Sensor Booster
2x Tracking Computer II
Low power
1x Co-Processor II
1x Imperial Navy Energized Adaptive Nano Membrane
1x Corelum C-Type Energized Thermal Membrane
1x Centus C-Type Armor EM Hardener
1x Corpus B-Type Armor Explosive Hardener
1x Federation Navy 800mm Steel Plates
Rig Slot
3x Medium Trimark Armor Pump II
Sub System
1x Proteus Defensive - Augmented Plating
1x Proteus Offensive - Drone Synthesis Projector
1x Proteus Propulsion - Localized Injectors
1x Proteus Core - Augmented Fusion Reactor
Charges
240x Caldari Navy Antimatter Charge M
2x Optimal Range Script
Drones
4x Ogre II
84K EHP - Faction deadspace mods required due to cpu.
451ms AB on (not at all what you’d call “mobile” or even viable to use.
635 DPS including Ogres, 255 DPS (faction antimatter) with guns once they die to a firewall or a bombing run.
23K optimal range (faction antimatter)
11K with Javelin,
84K Spike and 148DPS or 64K with tracking scripts (and still terrible tracking due to Spike negative attribute to it)
So all in all, the Drone Synthesis subsystem would be a good one to use if; 1, you don’t mind losing your T3. 2, you have as many logi as you do DPS in fleet and hope the enemy don’t shoot them.
I think your fit is off… the Covert sub went from an Offensive sub to a Defensive one so it gained a ton of damage compared to previous.
Because the Proteus has an incredible local tank and the Covert sub’s bonus on the Proteus benefits local repair, not buffer. If you overheat your repper and don’t do something incredibly stupid like try to solo-drop a fleet you’ll probably out-rep anything that isn’t another T3C or a Marauder in a 1 on 1 fight.
Most of this is just flatly incorrect… even the benefits you’re giving the Proteus.
The Proteus has worse resists but a better tank bonus, and an extra rig slot to make up the difference in resists, which it can swap around from mission to mission with the new bonuses. If you’re willing to overheat tactically during missions, which really why wouldn’t you with these things and Citadels to repair, then you tank far better than the Deimos.
The Proteus also aligns slower than the Deimos, base 10.33 align time compared to 7.55 for the Deimos.
The only way the Deimos has more DPS in a missioning fit than the Deimos is if you’ve forgotten a Mag Stab or something. Even the drones fit with only 2 DDAs and rails does more damage than a rail-fit Deimos with 3 Mag Stabs, 723 to 469.
Also the Proteus now warps at 3 au/s while the Deimos warps at 3.3 au/s.
It does have a worse sig and speed though, which means it takes a bit more damage, but the reps and better DPS should make up for that since you’ll be removing DPS from grid faster. Plus if you use the Drones subsystem then you’re not damage-type locked like the Deimos is, which means you can chew through missions about 1/6-1/3 faster depending on the rats you’re fighting.
Really, I think you should actually try one of these things out before declaring the deimos a better mission ship.
Small problem with your fit, the DSP subsystem only fits 5 guns… if that’s what you had fitted that would probably explain your PG shortage.
Balancing always felt a bit counter-intuitive, esp. nerfing things. You have Sleepers, Jove, Factions and so on and we know about their tech, so we can build their ships. Suddenly - for some reason - we are getting worse at building their ships. The reason is intervention by some out-of-game gods - where is the immersion in that?
Anyhow, not quite sure wether or not I like the changes as a whole. That being said, I think CCP has had a pretty hard job: not many people will give you love for nerfing things. While there was indeed a lot of communication and transparency, there have been a lot of nerfs recently and while the intent is surely to even the odds a bit, I’m not so sure wether most people can still follow the logic all of these changes or if it is just too much information and feels arbitrary.
You’re right, seems the in game fitting tool is broken as that is where i copied the fit. (seems you need to undock and redock to get the tool to update.)
Regardless of that, with 5 guns it is Still nearly 200PG shy of fitting a Faction 1600 plate (with 5 guns you need to take 2 off to fit a faction 1600 plate) - You can however fit a 1600 rolled tungsten if you swap to the hyperspacial propulsion sub (1 extra lowslot) and fit a power diagnostic unit. To give you a whopping 103K EHP 
Interestingly enough, 5 guns makes it even lees of an option as you’re losing more DPS. Without drones you have 213DPS (faction antimatter) with 23K optimal + Ogres = 593 DPS (at least for a few minutes). So yeah a gimped brawling fit with disposable DPS.
The drone subsystem may be useful for mission runners but then you’d be better off buying a VNI or Ishtar.
Then again it matters little - Mainline doctrine have simply switched to Legion with its over 200K tank and decent DPS.
Seems the only plan was to get Amarr ships back on the front line, with moderate success. (just took the fits off the Prots I had, swapped them for Legions got new guns and ready to go).
There still isn’t anything else viable to replace T3’s and Mach’s, so all in all the recent changes amount to, dumping a big shite in the laps of dedicated players.
how many mag stabs can you even fit without sacrificing tank
you get 1 minute of local reps giving about 1000 ehp/s hot with triple pumps
which is about the same as my brutix iirc
except proteus needs a deadspace a-repper to get that figure
plus you will get neuted
and you will die
at least brutix can fit a cap booster
[quote=“Cade_Windstalker, post:697, topic:8414”]
willing to overheat tactically during missions
[/quote]lol wtf
i already overheat when i need to
deimos still gets better tank
and close to the same dps
[quote=“Cade_Windstalker, post:697, topic:8414”]
723 to 469.
[/quote]ohh okay
now i see
you havent got a clue how to fit ships
maybe dont talk about things you dont understand
which seems to be everything youve posted in this thread
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Now stop it right there. I can make incredible tank on every armor hull for the sake of dps. @JC_Mieyli is talking about PvE you about PvP. Fits don’t match here as well as overheating. 30 min of doing DED and you want to overheat? Eternity.
First standard sleeper cache done with new Tengu. OP success 
I think at this juncture, the thing I’m most disappointed about losing is the tractor beam bonuses, but then again, I never really much used Immobility Drivers as much as I should have when it still had the tractor bonus, so I’m just complaining to complain at this point.
Skill point loss is still in play. It’s even indicated on the hulls now at least so it’s no longer a mystery.
I dont think this is going to result in any increase in popularity of T2Cs in either PvP or PvE.
it just pushes the meta even more towards pirate ships
i sold my proteuses already and fitted up a mach for pve
i personally love pilgrim
but stratios is a superior ship and a far quicker ship to train into
especially seeing as i still have gallente cruiser 5 left over from my proteus
though im considering extracting useless t3c skills
but i expect that was ccp plan all along
make people extract the skills
then wait a few months to buff t3c so everyone injects the skills again
sweet profits for ccp
There is still no reason to use a HAC. What can I do with a HAC that I can’t do with a T1 CBC or ABC for a fraction of the price?
With the exception of Ishtar, I can run some pretty high level PvE with Tar, in either armor or shield trim with more damage than EVERY other HAC, and all but a couple T3c builds.
No reason to use a T3c at all anymore really. Between ammo subs and fits, its not worth it to try to carry around all of the crap you need to “do it all” if its even possible. Because things like Tengu eat up ammo, which was always an issue.
So considering that a 250mil T2 Ishtar replaced a 2 BILLION isk pimped out Tengu as my site runner…about 4 years ago. I never did see the need for this nerf.
But you are the premier white knight so here’s your glass of cool-aid.
Glad I have about 3 billion in useless hulls rotting away in various parts of the map. They will stay there.
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If you already think that CCP will buff the T3Cs again, why extract? 
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thats why i haven’t extracted yet lol
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Warp faster.
Not die horribly to bombers.
Sig tank.
Just for a starter. Sure they might not be suited for solo PvE for the most part. But that’s never been considered the strongpoint of a HAC anyway.
So your comparison there is pretty loaded since you are talking about a very specific type of PvE and ignoring the rest of the game.
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It’s probably a weird thing to question - especially now - but why do the T3Cs have the command burst ability exactly? Aside from the obvious “it always was like this” answer I mean.
Cruisers have many roles, but being a command ship is not one of them. Battle cruisers and command destroyers are supposed to be the fleet booster ships right?
If the whole point of the rework was to make people use more than one ship, then why keep an out of place ability?
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Pretty sure if this is what happens they’ll nerf the Legion down to be in line with the rest of the T3Cs.
That’s kinda up to you, personally I think 2 works fine and gives you 3 tank mods on a Proteus, at least with the subsystems I was using, plus a rig or two for tank as well since the Proteus doesn’t need cap mods the same way the Deimos does.
First off, most missions don’t have neuts, and those that do aren’t really ideal to run in a Proteus anyways, at least not one fit like a Deimos. If you run drones you can keep out of neut range and it’s a moot point.
Second a Brutix is going to be taking basically full damage from the mission, the Proteus won’t. You also won’t have to burn out your repper while you’re getting DPS off the field, just cook it a little to tank the initial burst.
This is just false. The Proteus gets bonuses to overheating and can overheat for longer. The only way a Deimos is out-tanking an overheating Proteus is if you’ve fail-fit the Proteus.
If you run Blasters you get the same disparity, and if you’re running a Blaster Deimos in a L4 mission you’re asking to lose it.
Should also mention those were just T2 fits for comparison. Since it’s all percentages if you upgrade them both to faction you get the same results just with bigger numbers.
I’m not talking about PvP, we’re talking about Level 4 missions, which is what JC said they were trying to run.