Electronics
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Iām a bit concerned about how the warp speed bonused interdiction nullifier will play out. Nullification is a very powerful bonus through its elimination of the primary tackle method of fleet scale nullsec combat. The added combat power of cloaky, interdiction nullified fleet comps with added warp speed mobility bonuses could make every other form of non-suicidal roaming gank fleet obsolete. Combined with the huge damage output of the new cloaky subsystem ships, they could be downright oppressive. The warp speed bonus on top of it amplifies what was already the most interesting new use case for these revised T3Cs.
Jam module stats on from falcon on the left and tengu on the right. Not really seeing the horrible danger of these running rampant and ruining everyone elses fun.
4 Likes
Good enough, at least there was thought behind it, wasnāt sure if it was an oversight.
Are you at all concerned about the Loki replacing the Proteus with the changes coming? It seems to be hands down the best of the batch post change, in nearly every configuration. As it sits, it looks to be better than almost every existing Minnie sub BS ship in terms of capabilities.
I ask because with Gallent, the t3ās never really could match the power of a full French Drone Boat of Death, but Minnie donāt really have any shining beacon of badassery that the Loki wont be able to touch. The Cane being the obvious exception because, its a frickin Cane but other than that, most of that line will now pale in comparison to a Fully Functional Loki.
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Itās definitely something we need to keep an eye on, but keep in mind that the agility penalty for using nullifiers is significantly more severe post-patch, in addition to increased sig radius and a lock range penalty forcing nullified snipers to use more module slots for range.
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More along the lines of most minmatar hulls need a little help rather than the Loki being over-powered imo. Most of the large scale fits for other T3Cs tend to have trade-offs compared to their HAC brethren, which I assume was the idea. The minmatar thoughā¦ the Muninn is just a terrible HAC and the vagabond is more of a small gang specialist.
The Loki is definitely the one weāre most worried about potentially being too strong yeah. The discussion of whether it might be too good has been the main topic of the focus group over this last weekend, and after the discussion so far we here at CCP are leaning towards moving forward with these bonuses and watching it carefully.
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I promise to thoroughly test it for you 
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From the industry job metrics Iām watching itās safe to say you wonāt be the only one 
In all seriousness one of the potential changes weāve considered to tone it back if needed might be to replace the current projectile damage bonus for a 10% damage and 4% RoF bonus. That would leave it with the same dps but drop its alpha down to Hurricane levels. We decided not to pull the trigger on that change right now but itās on deck if needed.
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I think you still have time to put together a quick poll with pictures of the current subsystems, and people should order them from most favorite to least favorite.
Also, I would keep the current defensive and propulsion subsystems, convert electronics to core and merge the engineering and offensive subsystems.
On a totally subjective note about the current visuals to drop:
Proteus: warfare processor, emergent locus analyzer, capacitor regeneration matrix, drone synthesis projector, localized injectors
Legion: adaptive augmenter, energy parasitic complex, power core multiplier, liquid crystal magnifiers, fuel catalyst
Tengu: adaptive shielding, obfuscation manifold, augmented capacitor reservoir, covert reconfiguration, gravitational capacitor
Loki: warfare processor, dissolution sequencer, augmented capacitor reservoir, projectile scoping array, chassis optimization
My reasoning behind this: I find these assets either uninteresting or dumb.
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still far too tanky. all the focus group people seem to only be talking about huge blob battles where things can be volleyed easier
little disappointed at the skill point loss, free combat probes and goofy rig refitting
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Yea, i think its ok for one of the 4 to be a little strong, the tengu/proteus carried that burden for a while and now it can shift to the loki/legion but its important that both of those lines have ships outside the t3ās that are good as well or you risk shelving an entire race of sub capitals. Amarr seem fine, theyāve a lot of sub capitals that arenāt garbage, not great but not trash either (though both hacās suck in their own way) but Iām slightly concerned about the Matar line up and how its effectively been reduced to Sabre/Svipul/Scimmie/Loki/Cane/Mael. If the loki outshines the Scimmie and Cane its suddenly down to 4 ships
3 Likes
Always go Full French
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So we have a clear answer, where do you put T3 hulls relative to T1, T2, etcā¦ hulls? Is this image still the goal or has that changed?
Thereās still plenty of confusion with regards to T2 and T3 hulls. Are T3 ships supposed to be better? Are they upgrades? Are they side-grades? Are they just not meant to be comparable at all?
Itās confusing when you talk, in the focus group chat, about not wanting T3Cs to take over the role of Logi Cruisers or Recon Ships when you seem to be okay with allowing them to replace HACs. If they shouldnāt overshadow Recon Ships, why are they allowed to overshadow HACs?
They literally outperform HACs at every level. Better bonuses (Loki and Legion can even get the HAC role bonus), more slots, better all-around stats.
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What has you guys gun shy on pulling the trigger when the playerbase has come to the conclusion that the Loki will be the most powerful T3C by a wide margin? It seems a bit weird since weāre going forward with the other ships being visibly less powerful.
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That image can be considered out of date.
In practice we donāt have such a rigid structure as that image would have suggested, but the goal of trying to make room for different ships to have their own forms of value is still valid. Those differences can take the form of bonuses or slots, but can also take the form of costs (such as isk cost, LP cost or skillpoint cost) or differences along a sliding scale such as signature radius.
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Not gonna lie, I wanted to put this out for a while now:
Dear CCP & Focus Group. If you feel like you need some more time to figure out all the details - thereās no rush. July 11th is not a strict deadline. Take your time. Community will understand
3 Likes
Figure what out exactly?
Seems like most of the things are in line at this point imo tbh. Is there something in particular out of whack?
Do you have any specific concerns you would like to express?
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I know you didnāt ask me, but I did like his post, soā¦ 
My alliance has been an extensive user of Interceptors for ignoring enemy fleets to gank the living daylights out of entosis ships. Cloaky Nullified gank ships have been the dream of everyone in my alliance who wants the optimal ship for ganking targets of opportunity under the nose of frustrated FCs. I donāt know if thereās any scenario thatās more frustrating than not being able to be in the right place at the right time in Entosis fleets, and I hate the thought of people developing even worse feelings for these mechanics than they already harbor.