Keynote Chat

Communications Center General Discussion
223

I actually think BRM is a capital idea, and wish CCP would expand upon the idea in other regions of space, including highsec. Unfortunately, so many players threw a fit, CCP might have moved on from the idea.

And I’m kind of pissed about it. It’s another example of low effort, risk-adverse, and selfish players bullying CCP into making the game worse while they act like everything is CCP’s fault.

BRM benefits:

  • Diminishes botting income
  • Punishes bot aspirant behavior
  • Limits unsustainable economic activity by the mega-earners
  • Encourages PvP in different ways (i.e. fight over more profitable space, makes hunting nullbloc targets easier by forcing them to spread out more, encourages fighting over the ESS, punishes content denial strats, such as turtling by renters and intentionally responding with overwhelming force in krabbing space by nullblocs)
  • IS POSSIBLE TO MAKE EVEN MORE MONEY UNDER NEW SYSTEM
  • There are actually players on both sides (farmers and hunters) who say they have fun with the system

BRM Disadvantages:

  • Various groups would need to move to more profitable areas of space (which isn’t exactly a fun activity, but it’s also a one time thing)
  • Perhaps more valid complaints, but I wouldn’t know because I’ve only heard the whines of lowest common denominator players. Speaking of which…
  • Lowest common denominator players will incessantly complain that their deprecated strats no longer allow them to earn as much through their low effort/low risk game play (yes, effort and risk can very depending on ship and play style… but guess who’s doing most of the whining)
  • Selfish and/or short-sighted mega-earners will try to weaponize outrage in order to get CCP to give them what they want.

  • Angrily persisting in using deprecated strats is not adaptation -it’s being an evolutionary holdout.
  • Can no longer make the same amount of money by semi-afking your drone boat for hours on end? Cry me a river.
  • Have to move to more profitable space? That must be very hard for you. Let me open a bottle of whine and tub of ice cream, and you can tell me all about it… and don’t concern yourself with the fact that you’re crying about having to move once to a nomad.
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224

BRM is not a problem unless you are too stupid to understand it at most is a 25% reduction in bounty income. Like that is not really anything. maybe 4 mill.

I am still running afk Ishtar in havens in null and making 2-3 billion a week easy.
Because loot is still refinable into materials that equal avg of 10m a site. Faction drops still happen and now fewer people are doing it the price of the X/A-type loot from the escalations has increased.
The only thing BRM really hit was supper ratters making 40-60m a tick off the bounties. That has now been replaced by Crab Beacons anyway that are only slightly less profitbale.
And the ESS system combined with needle jacks has made small-scale cruiser pvp a thing again.

So STFU about BRM’s and get over it. It’s done, in, and has plenty of advantages. And has nothing to do with the Keynotes.

The Keynotes were poorly presented. That was the problem. Following a price hike by going “we have content but are not going to show you ANY of it or even tease it slightly.” Was monumentally stupid.

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225

it was badly implemented and hurt everyone rather the targeted players.

hence if they made it per the toon and not the system it would be targeted for those that over ratted.

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226

actually the banks get robbed a lot without any pvp because most of the robbers are WH’ers and when they got 20-30 blingy ships with matching pods against 4-5 ppl in the area because we are so spread out it’s loosing goal to keep the 20 - 40 mil in the ess so we just let them have it. it use to be different we could fight that kind of battle but the players have either quit or went to HS to do lvl 4 missions which you can make more than null.

227

Time on coms with other players. Anything else is fancy tic tac toe with yourself. I get that fix from Civ VI. I’m too old for hard core twitch stuff.

228

Should the game depend on one make and model of ship?

229

Yep. And the reserve banks are almost never robbed.

230

Translation: The ESS doesn’t encourage PvP. A lot of people are incapable and/or unwilling to defend their stuff, which means no PvP happens, and the krabs get less stuff. Therefore, the ESS is bad game design.

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231

Citadels are about to be egregiously nerfed - Damage cap and one RF timer removed. Sure, shields get buffed but you can rip them down way faster now and only have an Armor RF timer to deal with. With the Citadel Weapon nerfs attacking fleet Logi is optional.

But hey! Great News! We are going to doll up the interiors so you can see more of your own ships and admire your active ship on a prettier pedestal while listening to the blaring claxtons and seeing the flashing lights indicating the demise of your station. Way cool man!

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232

So instead of expanding Eve “real worldness” onto the planets, just simplify it all away to more easily feed the whales. Sure.

I kind of like firing off a brain cell or two to figure out what I can make from stuff on planets. It would be even more fun if there was Civ VI level action happening down on the mud balls.

But by all means, feed Null space.

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233

I do level 4 missions. That does not sound right. They were nerfed years ago.

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234

Some reason I have more male ones.

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235

No, that’s part of the problem, if Jonny Turbo Krab rats 16 hours/day and tanks the BRMs in a region, poor Jimmy Newbie who has just come to Null has to endure low ticks as a result. It punishes the majority for the actions of the minority. Ironically it’s bots that are LEAST affected, they’ll happily rat 24/7 regardless.

It should have been linked to the player, perhaps diminishing returns from the point you’ve ratted for 10 hours in a single week.

No it doesn’t do that either, you can tank a BRM in a single day, if it took months for them to degrade alliances may be encouraged to fight over regions with higher BRMs, but there’s nothing about the current design that incentivises combat. In fact the game has lost big NPSI whaling fleets as there are far far fewer supers (and rorqs) in space for them to hunt.

Short term yes, but not long term. Look at the recent BRM buff where they reset BRMs to a higher point from earlier in the year, ratting spiked for a few weeks before the BRMs crashed back down again.

Groups don’t move they couldn’t care less about ratting or mining and they won’t move structures about for them. Its players that move, at least until Jonny Turbo Krab spoils the new region, at which point you switch back for the cycle to repeat. Players systematically go round in a big loop at present, but it’s the player who only logs in 1-2 hours/day that gets ■■■■ on in the process.

No that’s not true, one of the highest effort APM activities was super ratting. Players want high effort gameplay from what I can tell, they just want the reward to go with it. Null sec anoms need to be redesigned, they’re boring, repetitive and 15+ years old at this point. They need to be deprecated and replaced with something similar to DED sites that cannot be botted, but provide meaningful rewards.

Another strawman, the vets that enjoyed ratting had spent years subbing up carrier/super accounts, that was removed. Think about it from the other side, we spent hundreds in sub payments and a lot of time skilling up super pilots, that financial value was removed overnight. How would you feel if you bought a PS5 only for the shop to take it away a year later? You may not agree, but if you want to understand the uproar, you need to understand the perspective from which players are coming from, not misrepresent them as some kind of evil self-serving force.

236

Level 4 missions are about 200m/hour if done properly, null Ishtar ratting is 60m/hour in a 100% BRM system. Watch Hateless streams from a while back, he was triple boxing L4s for 600m/hour in the safety of high sec. The highest isk/hour is high sec at present, that’s why most null players have numerous alts there, I personally triple box hawk abyssals for income.

237

40-60m was an average tick for a carrier, supers made 120-160m. Considering you were risking a 20b ship that took around 18 months of training to become proficient with, receiving a reward similar to T6 abyssals or running 2 incursion pilots wasn’t unreasonable imo. If you want to keep flying an Ishtar, that’s great, but over time I’m sure you’ll level up into bigger toys and then have a change of heart when you realise the endgame stopped x years ago with that Ishtar.

Subcaps Online just doesn’t have the same kind of long term hook the game had 3-4 years ago.

Players keep raiding in WoW because epics are powerful, Blizz didn’t nerf Molten Core because too many players became endgame geared and could 1 shot newbros… They introduced Blackwing Lair. Eve had the same kind of longterm aspirational goal with caps, it has lost that now and I think that will harm longterm vet retention, there isn’t a mountain to climb anymore. CCP missed a trick, they should have levelled up, provided T2 caps which could whelp T1 caps with high resource/isk price points and bought themselves another 15 years of scaling, journey and excitement!

Fanfest attendees would have been cheering had they announced T2 caps and the unfucking of ratting / mining to help in the pursuit of them.

238

can you make more than 8 mil in 20 mins on lvl 4, I can and that how much a 20 min tick in a ishtar in null sec is.

239

It doesn’t do any of that at all whatsoever. And it cannot do that by design. A war over a 200% BRM system or even constellation costs more than this system or constellation will ever produce in bounties by the time it reaches 50%. That is why we have not seen a single campaign, let alone sov war, to grab “valuable” systems. The entire feature is simply not designed to work that way. It is only designed to reduce income and make the game less enjoyable.
In order for your delusion to become reality, you actually would have to make the benefits much more permanent than they are now. A war over a single system can take days and costs billions and a lot of time. Plus, even if you got that system you can’t use it because it is still teeming with hostiles in it or nearby. Even if you could use it and if there were no obstacles in the way of farming that valuable system, it only takes a few hours to a handful of days to drive the BRM into the ground. As long as this is the case, there will never be claim campaigns or wars over high BRM systems.

There are also people in the world who say they enjoy sniffing glue. Doesn’t make it a good thing nor does it make it liked by a majority of people.

REDNES

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240

Rating your game enjoyment by income is kind of self defeating then.

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241

Good that I am not not rating it by income in this sentence then. You can earn little and still have lots of fun, like in events or random spawn complexes. But if it’s your bread and butter to pay the bills, low reward combined with ridiculous limiters is not going to be enjoyable if you rate one based on the other. That is where W-space has a big advantage. There you also have ridiculous limiters, but you get paid really well if you overcome them. CCP forgot to add the “really well part” in Null sec. :person_shrugging:

REDNES

242

I fully support making null local more like W-space.

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