Which is bad.
English is not my native language so maybe something is “lost in translation”. But I really can’t understand what is your point? I already said that both sides have some valid arguments but all of that is lost in generalized fight between ganking and miners. And somehow I feel like you only want to pull more people into fight, claim that both sides are wrong and turn whole discussion into typical EVE garbage.
TYPICAL EVE FORUM GARBAGE
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My original point is that I think people are taking Mike’s quote out of context.
The nuance of that view is that if this update were to be the end of highsec ganking (of barges and exhumers at least), then there is no valid position to it is easier for some specific ships and harder for others. If in general, ganking (of barges and exhumers) ended, then it is by definition a nerf to ganking, so why all the whinging?
However, I totally agree that generalizations are usually flawed to begin with, so this won’t be the end of highsec ganking of barges or exhumers; and we should all let the dust settle and see what happens - yet people will continue to cry anyway (because the long history of the forum shows that is the only thing we can truly generalise and know it to be true).
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No not really.
Before it took “quite a bit of effort” to gank one and it still does, it just takes “a bit less”. The thing is that now that the other barges are buffed to a useful state they will be used far more often which means there will be far more useful targets to go for making the proc, indirectly, less of a target.
Also, lets be honest here: the proc was a T1 cruiser size ship with BS size tank and an expanded hauler size cargo, It was OP as hell in regards to those stats, specifically created to be the AFK ship of choice. And CCP is now battling against AFKing so that nonsense has to go.
For active players there are now far more viable options, for afk players: get fcked.
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Um, I was being sarcastic.
But yeah, the procurer will be fine. Any competently fit procurer will still be hard to gank, and it will still be a good choice for those mining in high traffic/risk areas.
hulk is at 70-73k EHP so quite close to his Brick-Proc
It doesn´t end ganking as no amount of EHP stops ganking. but it enables a gankee to get away before it is to late thx to the local chat.
So the same as now you just need to use a MWD?
Excellent post. It seems sad that so many people will find one thing to potentially dislike in an upcoming rebalance, and then the “telephone game” takes over and people firmly set their opinions based on something they read from a guy who quoted a guy who looked at a post on Reddit.
There’s also the difference that gankers will probably be talking about max tanked targets and miners will be talking about min tanked, but even there the EHP differences seem significant.
At any rate, across about a dozen games I play, hysteria over the latest patch seems to be the regular response. Then things shake out for a month and people go back to bitching about the same old same old.
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I know that we can adamantly disagree with one another, but I hope that doesn’t mean that we can’t be friends.
And since I’m here, I also have a question for anyone that can answer it.
Was the Orca supposed to retain it’s 3% bonus to Mining Foreman Burst strength. I was under the impression that that bonus was supposed to be moved to the Industrial core. However, item cards for both the the orca and the core list the bonus.
So, was that intentional? Has anyone tested to see if both bonuses are applying? Perhaps the orca is no longer providing the bonus, and the item card just needs to be updated.
What i do know, however, is if both items are providing bonuses, that would be a huge buff to fleet yield. 
Hmm. T1 industrial cores are available, but not T2 cores have hit the market yet. Damn, I’m surprised it’s taking so long. I probably should have tried to make a buck off of the initial rush.
Well, the Friendship Permit is on special this season for the low, low cost of only 10 million ISK so…
But yes, I will happily tell anyone they’re a flaming idiot if I think their post deserves it. I will bluntly tell anyone they’ve got personality issues if their posts constantly reflect it. That said, it’s also nothing personal, anonymous posts to anonymous people on the internet and I’m generally happy to address each post (and poster) on an individual basis.
As for the Orca thing, yes that needs to be tested. We have confirmed quite a few tooltips/info bits that are still showing incorrect information though so it may just be one of those.
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Bp’s were not seeded ahead of the patch. And im being told by folks in my corp that are building the T1 it takes 7 hours for 1 (not researched for efficiency yet obviously). So even if folks are trying to get these on the market its going to take a while.
I havent looked at the t2 BP requirements but assume its going to need a T1 as a component and take as long or longer to build. So demand is going to be high. Im hoping ill get a T1 from a corp mate tonight or tomorrow. After that I have another 19 days ish to get V on the new skill………so no immediate rush for the T2. But ill probably snap one up if i see one and let it gather dust as oppossed to risking not getting one when i need it.
Well, they’ll likely sell for an extremely inflated price. I mean, current Jita buy order price is 1 bil. I haven’t calculated it’s build cost yet, but I wouldn’t be surprised if it’s 1/10th that.
Okay. So build time is only a day and a half (not factoring structure or decryptor bonuses), but invention time is damn near 9 days. So, looks like it’s going to be a while.
Wow. Ok. Might need to manage my expectations of when im going to buy one of these then lol
Quick check between old and new Pyfa, all I can go on:
Old orca gave 1,68 multiplier
new orca without core 1,68
new orca with T1 core 1,8
new orca with T2 core 1,87
Patch notes didn’t state the Orca losing base bonuses in regard to that so it could very well be a straight upgrade, or it’s another snafu. It’s CCP, who the fck knows.
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It was initialled pitches as a nerf to mining but making the ship better at boosting. So i think this will be right.
Its just now we get the boost benefit AND the mining drone bonusses are pretty much back to how they were. This patch has been a rollercoaster for orca pilots.
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I guess its also a win for those of us that bought discount orcas last week.
For the wrong reasons but eh. Thats 10 I didnt have in October
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Er…you left out the bit where the Proc now takes twice as long to get to warp. Come back and let us know when you’ve sat outside a station or at a gate for a full 20 seconds.
this is being changed. it will be down to 13/14 seconds in the next couple of days 
A stance that doesn’t really help, when there’s 1001 other pools people can play in. Of course the oldbies are gonna have such a stance…but without a continuous stream of noobs the game will die. Thus the opinions of noobs…whether right or wrong…do need to be listened to. Maybe there are misunderstandings, but if there are then why they arise needs to be dealt with. Perception is just as important as the actual facts, and very often people will stick around or leave based on how they perceive a game to be…which may not be how it actually is but one has to ask why are people getting those perceptions.
This is almost always a terrible idea.
The game can just as easily die if it’s turned into a noob-friendly kindergarten, because there wouldn’t be anything interesting enough to retain older players after you smooth out all the edges to make it enjoyable for the day-olds. See what happened to SWG for a good example of this.