This is not a sandbox. Play the way you are dictated!
2 Likes
The wartargets in question already know when Iâm undocked. Trust me when I say those wars had very little in common with normal Eve gameplay. That was all roleplayer stuff through and through. That said, youâre still wrong Iâm afraid. Letâs go through it.
The only way undocking gives anyone any intel is if they have eyes on your undock, which you should frankly assume anyway no matter where you are, what you do, who you are with and who your enemies are. Always assume someoneâs got eyes on you. This doesnât change whether youâre a PvPer, Bear, or whatever else. The only way to know is to see it happen.
Now, what youâre hyperbolinâ rather inexpertly is that once you start bearing, you start firing off little flares on the map saying NPCs died there at some point during the last hour. Or when you jump gates, or whatever else. This is correct. This is also no different than what PvPers do. They trigger the exact same intel tools when they kill things, at the exact same delay and vagueness level.
So, to recap: PvPers or Bears both trigger absolutely no such intel when they undock, unless people already have eyes on them. This should be assumed anyway, but this is still an equal situation between them. PvPers and Bears both trigger map updates when they move systems (negligible, not really actionable as such, but can be theoretically useful on a larger strategic level, not applicable in this discussion) and when they start killing each other or NPCs. The situation is still equal between them.
Now hereâs where things split apart: PvPers rarely sit in the same system racking up major kill counts. Exceptions exist of course, but in general that tends to either lead to getting enough attention that the local big boys drop something nasty on their heads or they simply kill off all local content and have to move on anyway. Bears on the other hand happily sit in the same system all day long working the same damn sites.
You call this unfair, and that PvPers have unique intel on you. This is not the case. This is your choice. Again, you are actively chumming the water, attracting sharks, and then bitching that the sharks somehow know youâre there. This isnât unfair or somehow biased against you. Itâs you choosing to be vulnerable, choosing to fire off flares, fireworks and neon signs declaring your presence and vulnerability. CCP isnât providing intel on you, you are.
CCP does provide that exact same level of intel detail on my activities too. When I kill, itâs registered, itâs uploaded and for the most part itâs far more quickly plastered across intel portals (zkill etc) with even more granular information like what ship Iâm flying, what character I am on, and even pretty exactly where in the system I am.
The difference here is: I donât let that become a vulnerability. I know my enemies now have that intel (as if they hadnât already spread the word in intel channels and so on) and I act accordingly. I change position. I get safe or I predict their actions and act accordingly etc. You choose not to do this. You just sit there, chumming the waters and do nothing to fend off the sharks except whine.
How about you instead proactively do something about it?
Band together with others for a starter. When you have numbers, you have more eyes. You have more scouts. You can have more advanced warning when thereâs bad guys coming. You can have more firepower and fighting strength, so you can defend against bad guys. You can have your own PvPers help you set traps. Play this massively multiplayer online game as a multiplayer game and cooperate with people and voila, almost all your problems go away.
Or maybe donât make yourself vulnerable to such intel in the first place. Be less conspicuous than your fellow bears. If thereâs five bears working sites in a system, let them attract the bad guys while you go do your bearing elsewhere. Spread your footprint and keep moving, and the intel you whine about so much will be consistently and permanently outdated.
tl;dr: Itâs still you actively attracting attention and whining about gaining attention. Everyone, including you and me both, are under the exact same mechanics in that regard. The difference is, you donât adapt to it. Everyone else does. Thatâs on you.
Itâs a sandbox game. âMy chosen playstyleâ is whatever I have fun doing and CCP has disrupted that countless times already. They forever changed how people fought for or against different factions, philosophies and ideals when they half-arsed Faction Warfare into existence. They disrupted lowsec and piracy significantly, eventually leading to the complete and utter end of ransoms and piracy being a viable main activity. They turned a significant amount of my characters useless when they changed how RnD agents and datacores worked. Nullsec and lowsec both massively lost ways for entities to support themselves when they changed Rorquals, moon mining and so on. They drastically changed nullsec with Fozziesov.
Etc etc. Iâve adapted to all of them. How is it that you canât adapt to this, I wonder?
edited to add: This is sort of a lie. I have adapted to gameplay changes, but I have NOT adapted to the way CCP has been treating its setting. I am currently unsubbed because I feel we donât get decent setting progress, and players donât get to influence things as they should. So you know, take my words for what they are. Middle of the night shiptoasting.
Play however you want. Just expect others to to do the same, and act accordingly. This holds true for literally everyone, be they traders, miners, bears, manufacturers, PvPers, explorers, and whatever else you want to do. If this is unacceptable, you donât actually want a sandbox, you want a walled garden.
Iâm sure other MMOs have nice little PvE servers thatâll suit you better.
2 Likes
Thanks for the advice. I will take a look.
To clarify, Iâm not trying to be snarky or mean here. I genuinely mean it. If other players in a sandbox kicking over sandcastles is a problem, then that kind of says sandboxes might not be for you. No matter who you are or what you do in a sandbox, the defining feature is that other people in the same sandbox have the same ability to mess with you and thatâs part of the challenge. How we interact with other people, including how we fend off those trying to kick our sandcastles over, is part of the game itself.
If thatâs not okay, I really do think youâd be much happier in something more of a themepark MMO. Where you can do your thing, have fun with other people, but not have to worry about them screwing you over. This isnât âhtfuâ, or âgit gud scrubâ or whatever the kids are saying these days. Itâs just⌠different people have different tastes and preferences in gaming.
Personally, I donât like certain kinds of âchallengingâ games myself. I love outwitting and outfighting people in Eve for instance, with a bunch of assets at risk and the adrenaline sloshing out of my ears as I shake enough to trigger the nearby seismographs, but I canât stand Dark Souls games or those Battle Royal games like PUBG etc. I accept that and donât play them, rather than playing them and expecting the games to cater to my preferences and tastes when thatâs simply not how their mechanics, rulesets and frameworks function.
If you do go look for other kinds of MMOs, I can heartily recommend something like FFXIV. In the two months I played the game, before end-game grind burnout kicked in - I really canât deal with themepark MMOs in that regard -, it had the most welcoming and enjoyable community Iâve ever seen and both the leveling, the learning curve and the social aspects were stellar as far as themepark MMOs go.
If you stay here in Eve though⌠just, you know⌠try adapting. Go with the flow and play according to what the mechanics are, not what you want them to be. I think you might discover that itâs a lot of fun.
1 Like
Well, everyone is right in their own logic. So, okay. The only question in my mind is why are so many people upset with the idea that having a local is an early warning system for PVEers. If you want to PVP there are so many other options. But no. People want PVEers to be more easy targets. I mean having a local cannot stop you if you want to pvp but it reduces the PVE activity in terms of the different PVEers with different mindsets and pleasure of EVE.
1 Like
Thereâs countless reasons to go for the bears:
- Reduce your enemyâs industry output. This has been a thing in almost every war mankind has ever had, and thatâs the case in Eve too. Break the industry backbone, you break the alliance.
- Provoke fights. Funnily enough, wanting to get a fight with the enemy PvPers can be a bit tricky because PvPers mostly know how to avoid being drawn into a fight before theyâre ready. So, force a fight by attacking the bears and provoke a defense. That said, nowadays that defense tends to be a massive capital drop, so less applicable these days.
- Because youâre there. PvPers want fights and/or kills. If youâre there and other targets arenât, youâre the target.
- Easy targets. Some PvPers definitely are just after the killmarks, no matter what they are. Hell, the easier they are, the better. Thatâs just how it is. Want to avoid that? Donât be an easy target.
- Salt farming. Letâs face it, that post of yours that Iâm responding to? Itâs kind of salty. Salt is delicious. The more the salt flows from a bear, the more people will want.
Etc etc.
Itâs not like itâs that hard to adapt to, to be honest. Fly what you can afford to lose. Band together with people for protection and intel. Stay under the radar. Fight back. Whatever. Thereâs a massive amount of ways for you to make your playtime whatever you want it to be in Eve. Itâs kind of on you to do that, not on everyone else to cater to your desire to play snakes and ladders on a chessboard.
1 Like
What about improving your hunting skills and make your kills worth to it then. But no, PLS CCP make it easier for us to hunt PVEers is better. Well, anyway. This is not going anywhere. As I noted before âeverybody is right in their own logicâ. I am out of here now. Have fun.
Seriously? Do you not understand how the in game map works?
Iâm a miner, industrialist who uses those activities to fund PVP.
When Iâm not mining I have the map open to find hotspots and therefore viable targets. Blackout has yielded many kills that would not have been possible with local chat.
I donât have to be sitting in a system to see where activity is - Others donât have to be sitting in system with me to see when I am in space. Mining especially isnât an activity you can undertake without risk unless you have a massive Super umbrella.
Of little concern to others but my isk reserves are getting low. If i canât soon find a way to generate isk, I start unsubbing accounts (again). If that ends up with me having one or to accounts doing anoms in â â â â fit carriers so be it but shooting NPCâs is not why i play Eve so if it comes to that - Iâll probably just leave again.
I canât PVP if i canât make isk to fund it.
My accounts leaving the game will have little to no affect in the overall scheme of things but I still love this game and would hate to be forced out by more ill thought out poorly planned changes from CCP.
1 Like
I mean, weâve been doing this since long before Blackout, dear. Weâre already quite proficient. The thing is though, local as an intel tool is broken in null, when you can safeguard entire regions just with some eyes on pipes and a functioning intel channel. Intel bots have been a thing for some time now, and if you donât see how that doesnât have anything to do with âhunting skillsâ, I donât know what to tell ya.
It does not show undocking. It shows activities in space. If you concentrate your activity in one spot, that is your own fault and no one elseâs.
If you canât make isk in Blackout, thatâs definitely on you. Iâve never needed local to make my isk, and Iâve funded my own PvP for well over a decade with no problems.
Some enemies of mine, pretty hardcore bears the lot of them, mine just fine without a super umbrella, by the way. They mine in Providence, they mine in Syndicate and some of them bear in WHs, or Highsec and so on and so forth. Crack open some moons and mine with Porpoises and Procurers and youâll be isk positive in no time. Bear in a WH for a bit and make stupid amounts of isk. Considered running some of those whatsits, the Triglobyte filament thingies? Pretty safe from PvPers in general, that, since they canât follow you in. They might wait outside when you come back out of course, but thatâs always a risk anyway.
Those bear enemies of mine? Wealthy sods, the lot of them.
If they can and you canâtâŚ
⌠well, that is kind of sad.
1 Like
Of course because moving Rorquals from place to place to keep intel low is such an efficient way to mine.
You clearly have no idea what you are talking about
Iâve spent 15 years building up to play the game how i chose - I donât belong to a massive group with an overwhelming Super umbrella - What is it you fail to understand about risk vs reward?
I donât shoot npcâs for isk - Thatâs for lazy noobs who want to rely on others to provide them with what they need.
You obviously fit in this category - Without players like me youâd have to pay a lot more to kill your highsec war targets - But then you fly cheap so it would have little affect on you personally.,.
You are seriously a sad little person, spouting off about a play style you obviously know nothing about - Not all miners are filthy rich, some of us make just enough to fund others aspects of Eve and were happy with our lot - Yet you condemn all of us.
Provi is all but dead - What used to be a target rich area is now all but deserted - I do get what you are saying, after 15 years i and many others need to change the way we play the game so sad little players like you donât have easy targets.
Done WH space - Didnât like it. Highsec LOL - I donât want to put in 40 or 50 hours a week dealing with gankers and loser highsec war deccrâs to fund my play style. Already stated shooting NPCâs, no matter how valuable is as boring as dry toast.
Seems my choices are clear - Join a group with a Super umbrella or just unsub most of my accounts and continue on till my isk runs out.,.
Adding changes that allow the richest groups and individuals in the game to prosper while small/er players and groups get killed off - What a Fukin wonderful game we play.,.
4 Likes
If youâre mining in Rorquals and canât defend them, thatâs definitely on you. It doesnât really matter what you undock and bear with, you have to adapt accordingly. If you canât fly under the radar, youâd damn well better have the necessary number of friends in your back pocket to keep your arse safe when the bad guys come calling after you chum the waters.
Expecting to be able to Rorqual mine in safety without an umbrella of some sort is maybe the dumbest thing Iâve heard all week.
You want to mine in a Rorqual but not face the risk inherent to it, and you ask me if I understand risk vs reward? You need to get some perspective here. If you canât safeguard what you undock, you at least have to be able to afford losing it. If neither applies to your Rorqual, you probably shouldnât undock it. It really is that simple, and it applies to both of us.
I donât solo my Super Carriers through nullsec, because I canât defend them if Iâm not in a sizable fleet, and your Rorqual falls under exactly the same risk vs reward category. No one is entitled to be able to undock and use their toys undisturbed, be they bears or PvPers. If I want to play with my big toys safely, I have to put in the damn effort for it, and the same applies to anything thatâs undocked.
Barely even two sentences apart. You donât see the irony at all, do you?
a) I was a miner you mong. Iâve served my time in belts and more recently in moon cracks. Iâm not âcondemningâ any of them, Iâm telling you that miners are making money hands over fist in all four secs right now as we speak and if you canât do it, then thatâs a problem with you, not the game.
b) I fly cheap? My Loki is about as bling as it gets, and I threw up a faction fit Fortizar while solo, sacrificing it to the Content Gods just for fun and roleplay, with no expectation of it surviving.
So you donât want to put in the effort to earn your way through Eve, roger. I mean, everyone else manages, but you canât. Somehow. I mean, Iâve mined, traded, run a little industry empire, etc. My enemies sure as hell have managed to earn their way through Eve. I really donât see how you canât. Oh, wait, you just donât want to do something other than having it handed to you risk free.
Or, you know, adapt and go on like the successful small group players in the game. Your mistake is expecting that you should get to play the same way the big boys do, without having to put in the work the big boys can do. Youâre whining about Rorqual mining, when youâre in a group that canât defend Rorqual mining, and then blaming everyone else for it rather than yourself.
Just downgrade to something you can defend or lose while staying isk positive and everythingâs hunky fuckinâ dory. Itâs not even difficult.
You decide what league you want to play in. Big boy industry mogul or supercapital muscle etc? You better have the organization for it. If you donât, well, then maybe you should temper your expectations accordingly.
5 Likes
Null was (and still is) safer than Highsec if you live in an area where the residents do the work to make it that way. I live in nullsec. Nullsec under the auspices of an active, engaged group that watches out for one another is the safest space in the game.
2 Likes
Im still shocked and dismayed that people claiming to live in Null consider PvP to be something they shouldnt have to be involved with.
These forums have changed, man.
EvE used to be cool.
4 Likes
The blackout is basically taking us back to pre-fozzy days with the added headache to maintain the ADMsâŚ
So taking some space from the Blocs shouldnt be a problem for you then.
whatâs up? Did CCP announce when they will remove blackout?
1 Like
ADMs are literally the good part of Aegis sov. Theyâre what force us to reduce our footprint and adopt a population-density strategy, rather than sprawling plantations.
Nope! This is still just posts 10,001-12,238 of the initial âCCP can now ignore youâ thread. Right @CCP_Falcon?
1 Like
I like the blackout.
Playing EVE is fun.
2 Likes
2 Likes
This blackout needs to end. If we wanted to live in space like null sec with no local, then pilots can move to wh space. We get the point, not having local makes 0.0 a lot more difficult, but its not reasonable for majority of 0.0 pilots and operations. Put local back and stop ruining eve or start losing players. These changes make the few things I and many others enjoy doing in eve almost impossible. Take this away from your players and many will quit because its not worth paying for a game you no longer enjoy. Make these changes soon!
11 Likes