I some some players like the blackout and some do not. I for one do not like it and hope that it ends soon. I have spent way to much time in eve and billions of isk in ship to undock and have my rorqual or carrier blown up because no one truly knows who’s in system or not. This is my opinion and I respect those of others, but I truly wish blackout would end.
6 Likes
■■■■ be running DEEP up in EVE;
Excellent explanation
Thanks for the ample explanation.
I have the tendency to compare with RL stuff… it’s like superpowers’ nuclear arsenal, or “weapons of peace”. The built up momentum of such entities in EVE is in consonance with the mechanics that encouraged such playground. For now, they are unstoppable and I have not seen a single quote from CCP regarding chaos and this in the same sentence. AFAIK, the only mention was when some brainfart seal applauded to the void argument: “BO affected BOTS”, heart and soul of bigshots. To this, Hilmar expressed that bots adapted (rather quickly) in the first interview.
This is the stagnation I refer to. It’s a couple levels down the food chain where I see the danger. Out there, at the top, we agree nothing has or will happen and it’s quasi independent of anything the BO exercised. But now that it’s getting implemented, the cyno nerf is giving better chances to PVE because at cap and subcap scale, it’s more viable to convert a mining or ratting operation to a coherent battlefield (one on which both parts receive impacts), even with the BO in action.
Now, remove the Blackout.
Will this affect the new (NOT * ) cyno nerf? I am sure it will! and both situations will not coexist very well. I mean, the cyno nerf without the BO would be too high of a risk and easily detectable. People WILL NOT JUMP THE CYNO because of the 10 caps on the line, maybe the projection will be limited to say, 60%…
And perhaps I’m too fast to conclude that the Blackout is here to stay not because of how great it is, but because it’s been patched with band-aids which make it irreversible.
This constant wrongdoing loop is exactly what Hilmar said CCP should shake off: Too many bad decisions that found a comfort zone under further patching to make them work. I know I don’t need to explain this situation and the current SOV issues as example. Suffice to say, it’s a crapscade of patches that aided the grow of donutbrellas.
Ok, answer this simple question: If there was no Blackout, would the cyno nerf be on it’s way next month?
I truly don’t think so. It may be that it was discussed for years, proposed and tested somewhere as many other things but really, my point is that it was in the bag and thrown in now because of the BO.
We could speculate about scenarios derived from these two devils dancing el tango (BO+cyno nerf).
One of them that I predict, is that it will bring back some PVE because it increases the chances to establish coordination to counter attack due to the now real possibility of gaining time for the PVP wing to do something.
Other is that gone are the days of Capitals playing tough guy. No more toasting caps, no more gating Naglfars, no more BS because they cannot carry cynos which made them pretty much impervious.
Now that the cyno generating ship is a constraint, it changes everything.
In my experience, the appearance of any capital ship playing tough guy is a deterrent for any chance of a fight. Also, those hulls were being abused for unintentional functionality. I mean, A toasting Nag?
Which takes me to the next nerf or… let’s call it constraint: the Entosis Link Module. Just as the Cyno Field Generator, will be restricted to some hull types and gone will be the days in which the incoming forces could present an “unfightable” scenario.
Little by little, by affecting these lower levels in the food chain, will eventually build up more fighting chances or perhaps more explosions. Not to a supercap level… Those things will begin to collect dust and eventually, when the big shots get so bored because remember back in Aug 2019, when we could cyno supercaps endlessly? It was such fun batfoning tarzans mother in law and $h1t… aaawww those were the days
Well, now you can’t. Or let’s say… it’s not that easy.
- The Cyno Nerf is nothing new. It’s similar to some WH space, to which you jump in but get limitations in quantity. You cannot jump enough without the risk of collapse. You cannot cyno enough without risking coca-cola the cyno. We have to agree, that it is yet another existing feature brought from WH space to NULL. I told you guys, that
If you are worried about the safety of your capital ship.
Work with your player group to keep it safe.
Except it’s not. Because the biggest threat to capital/subcapital ratting and mining isn’t having supercaps dropped on you, or even dreads.
It’s bombers. Drop 30 torp bombers in w/a covert cyno, and any subcap is toast. Drop 80, and they’ll kill carriers. And now the carrier can’t get help. The ratting Ishtar can’t light a cyno. The rorqual can’t get help, either—he and any exhumers or barges with him need to hope there’s a Force Recon in rescue range of his PANIC window. The cyno nerf is not helping small-scale subcap and capital ratting or mining.
There’s no ‘battlefield’ involved. There’s no battle. This slows down defensive response. It doesn’t gain time for the PVP wing to do anything.
Removing the Blackout doesn’t change that basic math, either.
As for the Entosis Nag… it’s already got a penalty. It can’t receive reps (unlike subcap entosis) and it cycles much, much slower. It’s basically a suicide dread. Especially with these cyno changes, because it can’t light a cyno to get backup.
You’re better off bringing 200 Jackdaws, and making everyone’s life misery. So that’s what groups will do.
2 Likes
Sure, that’s the other side of the coin (you are considering a capital ratter being ganked, I was considering just anything) but still, the primordial intention in this case would be to destroy a vulnerable hull that’s incapable of cyno.
But I was thinking of it differently. Say you have a by the book PVE op going on, with support to get that enemy cyno on the spot. You get dropped, yes but the enemy projection is now limited to the reaction speed of whatever kills the cyno hull. Now the defending part has time to gather moar to kill whatever came through that cyno. Now there is a chance. Now, you can do some PVE.
Say the cyno got popped but did last enough for jumping a first wave. Now you need another cyno… That takes time also. Seconds, you say, but enough for a reaction.
Sure, but before that, you have to bring in that cyno, which is more possible with BO but way, waay harder without it.
If you attempt to gather an effective counter to protect a PVE op in current conditions, you will need … I don’t know what the hell you will need.
But with the cyno nerf, you have a possibility. You have more chances. It would still be a big operation, depending on how infested the system and surroundings be, but doable.
Try to imagine a no BO but with cyno nerf. The difference is huge.
Bingo! The cyno nerf will turn it into a real suicide, not a cap bait.
What’s wrong with that? I like to call it PVP.
Keep in mind the limitations for cyno capable hulls has nothing to do with ship type. What’s important here is that now they have some couple of thousands less hit points. Now you can kill them quickly. Now you can setup specific overviews and reac… wait! I don’t have to give you the instruction booklet here!
I invite you to see it in action. But believe me, it’s doable.
We are already working on it.
I was considering literally anything that isn’t a supercapital or titan being attacked. Let’s take another look at your situation:
The attacking cyno is a covert cyno. It’s not on-grid with your PVE op. Right now, the first notice you have of it all is when the torpedo bombers—all of them—decloak, spread points, and start firing. That’s it.
BlOps whaling has been going on in every part of null for years. The only thing the Blackout does is let you cyno in off-grid. Before, you’d just use a tanky as hell cloaky Proteus to get tackle and light the covert cyno. Which you can still do. If it’s tanky enough to cyno in a fleet while 200+ battleships try to shoot it, I promise, it’ll tank your PVE op.
A standing defense fleet with either capitals, supercapitals, or titan bridges ready.
Except, again, you don’t. You need to have a Force Recon in position. Which means you needed to have PvP assets already standing by.
They have under a million EHP, you mean.
That’s the dirt-cheap version. Think you can kill that before the logistics lands? If you could, you didn’t need a cover fleet. Kit it out, you double the EHP. And he doesn’t need to tackle you. His buddy in the bomber that covert-cyno’d him in has that covered.
Bring on the dreadbomb!
2 Likes
I knew my idea of a “nerfing cyno jump” was better!
One that would leave the incoming hulls nerfed after jump, webified, unable to lock, half shields, or better then, depending on the modules or whatever, remove resistances, reduce targeting, etc…
I told you, it’s a small step… you just make it look tiny-er. (shhh! there is a way around, m8! it can work!)
See? Null was always that WH space everyone dreams of. And this BO+cyno nerf is proof!
Too big… I told you… a few steps down the food chain, please. I told you many times, these kinds are not affected. Think middle-man size
| 45037 | Irnal - Star | Sun K5 (Orange Bright) | 0,7 AU |
|---|---|---|---|
| 29624 | Chesoh | Stargate (Amarr System) | 12 km |
| 29624 | Hanan | Stargate (Amarr System) | 2,8 AU |
| 30488 | Scanner Probe | Sisters Core Scanner Probe | - |
| 30488 | Scanner Probe | Sisters Core Scanner Probe | - |
| 30488 | Scanner Probe | Sisters Core Scanner Probe | - |
| 30488 | Scanner Probe | Sisters Core Scanner Probe | - |
| 30488 | Scanner Probe | Sisters Core Scanner Probe | - |
| 30488 | Scanner Probe | Sisters Core Scanner Probe | - |
| 30488 | Scanner Probe | Sisters Core Scanner Probe | - |
| 30488 | Scanner Probe | Sisters Core Scanner Probe | - |
| 52647 | Renewing Raznaborg Damavik | Renewing Raznaborg Damavik | - |
| 52645 | Raznaborg Damavik | Raznaborg Damavik | - |
| 52645 | Raznaborg Damavik | Raznaborg Damavik | - |
| 35825 | Irnal - In the Shade of the Sun | Raitaru | 0,7 AU |
| 52648 | Blinding Raznaborg Damavik | Blinding Raznaborg Damavik | - |
| 628 | Frenchy Distraction’s Arbitrator | Arbitrator | - |
| 1932 | Irnal I - Imperial Academy | Amarr Trade Post | 0,9 AU |
The Recons in High sec evolve.
Thanks to the blackout, there is no longer middle man size.
2 Likes
Maybe I missed that. I have not seen anything about it in the news. Please link it, I would love to view it. As for my disagreement with their explanation, I have nothing to agree/disagree with 'cause I have nothing to go by. Thanks.
You do know Covert cynos remain unchanged (bomber gangs, cloaky T3’s, Black ops battleships) and even Recon cynos will be impossible to detect until they decloak and light their cyno - At which time it is usually too late to call for help.,.
The largest groups already have the “no cyno on caps” issue solved. It won’t have any major affect on them.,.
NB; No Super pilot worth his salt doesn’t already have at least one max skill Recon char.,.
1 Like
The new null sec blackout of local isn’t a PVP thing! It is really just a version of PVI (players vs industrials). So just another CCP F—'d up set of game play that is in support of “We made a change”.
1 Like
Are you saying that industrialists aren’t players?
I now want to add something concerning players living in npc-null.
First the characteristics you find in this area:
NPC-null is not that attractive to bigger alliances because these areas cannot be “owned”. There are NPC-Stations everywhere where everybody can dock up and logout, comming back surprisingly and harrass you.
For that reason npc-null seems to me a kind of refuge for all players, corps, smaller alliances which do not want to be part of one of the big blocks you already can find in New Eden in sov-space.
From my experience these groups of players are much smaller. i myself think that i am in a bigger-than-average alliance with about 50-100 active players (depends on counting). These groups usually do not have the resources to mobilize bigger pvp-defending-fleets if they get attacked - usually by the bigger fish from soc-space. Instead they jump the trees.
Due to the smaller player-count they do not have the manpower even to have alts at all gates to check jumpgate-activity. They mainly relied on checking the local and putting their findings into a kind of intel-chat in their group.
Blackout changed this massively with - from my perspective - starving out npc-null. The smaller groups cannot maintain a minimum of safety - even if they wanted to. As a result only the players specialized on pvp get online regularly - all others don´t.
In the end - if you talk about safety regionwise - you can build this scale (from safe to unsafe):
Highsec
Lowsec
WH-space (you can control you static - not much effort even for small groups)
sov-space (they have enough players to keep all gates watched - and no npc-stations to fear)
npc-null
If it stays that way you drive more players into sov-space into the big alliances - what i think is not the purpose of the changes. I personally would like it much more fractioned than it actually is (Goons-online is all to familiar to my ears).
And i got a second issue:
I suggest you reactivate local in all nullsec for people you have a +5 minimum standing, so friends can see each other.
Reason:
The starving-out is also caused by not seeing each other - and the loss of personal contact and socializing. Even if you are together in Discord or TS you don´t know where your friends are - unless you always ask them. Let´s reactivate the social live!
Sure. The cyno nerf is not a nerf. And you have not the slightest chance of survival. My bad.
Did I say the largest groups are not affected?.. Ah yes, I did. Sorry if it was where no one reads it.
Can anyone answer the question? the one about BO and cyno nerf?
Anyone?.. no takers?
Meh, didn’t think so.
Keep cherrypicking.
There is no nerf on the cyno with incoming changes. the projection is potentiated with it. It’s stronger than ever and there is no way, absolutely no way to fight back. No chance of a bubble anywhere, no use to think about strategy, no instalockers, nothing. No time to react, no possibility of thinking about it.
I was totally wrong about it.
We’ll see.
I will remember the days anything could cyno.
Nah, it’s not a nerf at all, mnah!
pfft!
Sorry, I assumed everyone saw these but you’re right, they didn’t advertise them anywhere official.