Local Comms Blackout - Discussion Thread - Part Deux!

[Xucca]

F U T I L E

Your BO Plex connection is.

[Mark_Marconi]

You mean you cannot understand what I am saying. Especially as it is only a minor point of an argument.

[Arrendis]

@Mark_Marconi

So you are claiming the number of Plex now is the same as it was in 2012?

Wow, talk about setting up a straw man. First of all, do you have data that shows the number of PLEX traded in 2012?

What I’m saying is that your initial assertion of

@Mark_Marconi

the purchasing of Plex with Cash and the loss of those who do has been happening for a long time

Singling this out this way implies that you believe those players have been leaving the game at a higher rate than ‘players who use plex to buy game time’ After all, if the ratios were constant, if both groups are leaving at roughly the same rate, there’d be no impact on PLEX prices, while you’re claiming the departure is the reason PLEX prices rose.

My point, in comparison, is that we don’t see any market data that would indicate their exodus at any greater rate than the overall playerbase. If we look at the pubicly-available data going back a year, we see last September running a volume between 1.19M PLEX on Sept 19 to 2.01M on Sept 29. If we look at EVE-Offline for that period, the Peak Users for those weeks was 34,638 on Sept 16, and 36,632 on Sept 23.

If, for purposes of comparison, we look at June of this year—the last month before the Blackout—we get a range of PLEX volume between 1.17M on June 18, and 2.31M on June 29, or basically the same range of volume. June 16 shows us a Peak Users for that week of 30,577, where June 30 (the peak closest to the 29th) shows 30,740 players. For the sake of consistency, the peak prior to the 29th, June 23, shows 29,437, so right in the same range.

So a drop of 4-6,000 users shows us the same range of daily PLEX volume. That doesn’t exactly scream ‘the PLEX sellers are the ones leaving’.

Now, just for the sake of completeness, let’s look at the high-water mark on PLEX prices:
May, 2019:
PLEX volume range: 1.12M, May 14 - 3.27M, May 26^[1]. Let’s be a bit more generous to your point, and remove the obvious outlier weekend. Without that weekend, the high end is 1.92M on May 18. Peak counts? May 11: 35,612, and 36,897 on May 18.

So let’s review! Range of PLEX volume:
Sept 2018: 1.19M-2.01M
May 2019: 1.12M-1.92M
June 2019: 1.17-2.31M

That shows a very stable trade volume, even as the peak users during that period drops from 36,000 to 30,000.

Do you have actual data to back up your position?

---

¹ So what happened on May 25-27? Well gosh, I dunno. What could account for a whole bunch of people suddenly needing to PLEX a bunch of accounts for one month? This, incidentally, also accounts for the Saturday peaks: that’s when we were moving our fleets up.

[Chequrself]

Dude it has taken me a while to realise but your default argument to everything is:

“Nahh AAAaaahhh” (stated in best two year old voice).

@Mark_Marconi

Not at all, CCP could act as the exchange themself and it would just mean they would need an isk sink to cover the extra isk into the system.

You just refuse to face reality.

This is the way it works.

• Players buy plex and sell it for isk
• Players buy skill extractors, skill dump toons and sell the resulting skill injectors for isk

So a downturn in the sales of these items constitute a drop in cash inflow for CCP. Its a pretty simple premise.

Also a simple concept to grasp is the fact that if CCP were serious about fight this inflation then they would stop marketing the ISK faucets that are plex and skill injectors. But they won’t do that. Why not, because they generate cash inflow for CCP.

If you are seriously going to argue that this is not the case then you really are either CCP Hillmar just blatently spreading propaganda and doubt. Or you are just a forum troll and never actually play the game.

[Arrendis]

@Mark_Marconi

If the BO is cancelled, it will mean mineral prices plummet again

Except the BO isn’t where mineral prices started spiking. I’ve run you the numbers on this upthread. They’ve been going up for months, slowly. And right now, Megacyte, which is the mineral most impacted by the Blackout (Morphite, after all, comes from Mercoxit, which can’t be mined w/Rorquals because of the cloud), ran an average price in March (the last month before the Excavator nerfs, when null mining was much, much higher overall) of 505 ISK/unit. Since the Blackout? 431/unit from July 12-Sept 1.

Yup. 85% of the price. What an absolutely massive spike in prices. I don’t know how people will handle it plummeting UP 15%.

What you’re seeing on the HS mineral prices (the prices of minerals that can be mined in HS) is stockpiles running out. Last month, Amarr ran out of trit. That’s not the Blackout. Nobody in nullsec is mining Veldspar, I promise. That’s marketeers being lazy and sloppy.

Edit: BTW? If it was the Blackout having such a huge impact on the mineral prices, minerals would be spiking where they’re mined, too. Megacyte in 1DQ1-A, over the period of the Blackout?

356/unit.

Such spiking. Where will it end? Free minerals?

[Mark_Marconi]

@Chequrself

Also a simple concept to grasp is the fact that if CCP were serious about fight this inflation then they would stop marketing the ISK faucets that are plex and skill injectors. But they won’t do that. Why not, because they generate cash inflow for CCP.

Shame plex and skill injectors are not isk faucets in any way.

So on that I will listen to George Carlin.

[Arrendis]

@Mark_Marconi

So on that I will listen to George Carlin.

SHUT THE FUCK UP

[Xucca]

So minor, it is FUTILE.
Not worth to even mention.

[Naomi_Samish_Lynx]

@Ikki_Phoenix

Dont know your null sec history
I will put it this way. Dont think I am too far from the truth in saying that every pilot operating in null sec is an Omega pilot. I also dont think I am too far from the truth in saying that every pilot in null sec has at some point bought Plex, not necessarily on a regular basis, but every once in a while. What do you think will happen with null sec pilots leaving? CCP will lose money, game will be shut down, and Alpha and other Omega pilots in high sec/low sec are not going to replace the commitment null sec players have toward the game, and those pilots are not going to replace the amount of money spent by null sec players.

That’s a lot of assumptions and wildly overstating your position. Lived in NS most of my 7 year eve career and never bought a PLEX–know at least a few others also just resigned to pay as they go to fully enjoy the game unencumbered by worry if they don’t raise isk directly. Quite a few NS players have alpha accounts (myself included)- and entire doctrines by some of the big-blocks just for those accounts. Also the oldest alliance in the game lives in low sec, there’s dedicated players to the game outside of NS. CCP knows and understands all of this as well.

[Xucca]

@Sgt_Ocker

I told you, let’s protest in game by killing everything new in Empire

No; The best protest is not to kill anything - If nul went on a rampage in highsec right now it would give CCP reason to say - See we were right.

Do nothing, play the game the way you choose - Let CCP’s plan run its course.
It isn’t the first time CCP have made really bad design decisions, this is just the next in a long line of them.,.

Logic can also be an expression of fact misconception.
So is cherrypicking, which is all but useless when desperately attempting to diorama an agenda without facts.

Here is the full quote. Not to correct you but to complete and finalize your own foot shot.

@Sgt_Ocker

I told you, let’s protest in game by killing everything new in Empire but too many Amidalas hinder behind those internet spaceships…

It would have been a nice chaos, if you ask me.

O wait, it may still be…

OH NOES!

But seriously, there is no other real way to protest but with your own, very real wallets.

There!
The attempt to show BO connection with Plex was so FUTILE, someone had to go lower by cherrypicking (again).

Can we be friends again? But you have to promise to stop trolling, ok?

(Let me explain this last phrase:)

I’M NOT SAYING YOUR POST IS TROLL

Just promise you will never, ever attempt on trolling again, until the next time you get a real chance to do it.

Then, we can be friends again.

[Xucca]

Just sayn… my point is chaos could have been better and something we all would love to be part of.

Ok, let’s not kill everything new in Empire.

Can we hold on to our wallets (our RL wallets) as sign of protest?
And stop giving people credit when they come with no foundation behind their assumptions?

There… forgive my prior post and use this one as band-aid.

[Xucca]

@Xucca

Do nothing, play the game the way you choose - Let CCP’s plan run its course.
It isn’t the first time CCP have made really bad design decisions, this is just the next in a long line of them.,.

But I am giving CCP all the chance in the world!
I AM letting their plan go on as best as any bootlicker would. Let me tell you how:

1. I am voicing it here.
2. I want to protest what I see and numbers show it’s going bad.
3. I DEMAND CCP to follow their statements:

• Chaos weekly
• We’re doing this to stop the bad decision-patching loop

4. I am playing the game and holding IN NULL, taking it more manly than any Neanderthal who claims it here.
5. I want more chaos, evenly spread all over New Eden, not this “let’s make this hard here and that easy there and see what happens” BS.

Now, look at the entaglement between BO and the cyno changes… Listen: The cyno is the next only step I’ve seen since the BO began. because they stated it’s all part of the chaos… I wanted to find a relation between them, I really needed to. But it doesn’t look like it will downplay the BO issues. I wanted to see any good in it but it doesn’t seem that way… things are getting worse. And it’s why I think the BO will just end and I’m more than willing to make it end even if I have to slap facts on cheeks one more time.

And those asking or falsely claiming CCP is not listening, WRONG!
The proof is that after the initial wave of “press release” about the changes in cynos, there IS THE FIRST PATCH TO IT! or what did you think they meant when saying a new set of cyno modules will be introduced in order to allow transports…

They ARE listening but again, the cyno changes are bad enough to patch them right before release. I mean, you can see that, can’t you?

Ok, let’s say cynos and BO are unrelated, totally off each other but somehow part of chaos, that it is a coincidence that both happen in Null space and both had plenty of peeps phucked up!

Let me refresh that pumice on your shoulders: Absence of content IS NO EFFING CHAOS!
No one here wonders if they could have come with anything remotely better?

The answer is: No, because it’s too much work, your money is no good for that kind of effort, you cannot expect a good product or demand for it.

Killing noobs is by far, a better option than seeing a bankrupcy headline. But since we’re all trolls and Amidala is in the way… well, the last resource is your credit card.

[Ikki_Phoenix]

@Xucca You want to protest the current situation? A few choices:

-continue to assault CCP on forums and all available media, including instagram, twitter, facebook and in any forums where there is an EVE thread. Call them out on everything publicly and dont stop no matter what.

-stop logging in game for even CTAs and cancel all subscriptions. no plex buying either.

Heck, I would even suggest to go to CCP HQ in Iceland and protest in front of their HQ.

[Xucca]

@Ikki_Phoenix

Heck, I would even suggest to go to CCP HQ in Iceland and protest in front of their HQ.

no give me no ideas!
I posted my course of action here a cpl days ago… so far, I’m following it and it’s working fine.

cheers!

[Sgt_Ocker]

Problem with any sort of protest is, you first have to get the attention of those you are protesting.
CCP don’t care what we have to say because there mindset is to only pay attention to those who agree with them.

I do believe someone at CCP is monitoring all the threads about the “Era of Chaos” and reporting back to the powers to be with - The majority (those the rest of us can’t see) are happy with what we are doing - There are a “few” who are voicing concern but …
So on they go, as long as their metrics, propped up by giveaways show people are still logging in CCP will continue on regardless of what players do or say.

[Arrendis]

@Xucca

Logic can also be an expression of fact misconception.

He’s not wrong, though. If, for example, we responded to this with a Burn Jita (which was, after all, on the table) CCP would point at that as a sign that they’d pushed us into doing something. It would’ve been hailed as ‘look, the chaos is working, it’s making the null guys go shoot people somewhere’.

It’s a completely wrongheaded reading of it, but it’s the one they would have taken. And we know that, because they kept trying to say ‘look at how the Drifters forced everyone to react!’ and kept pushing the narrative that there was some kind of prolonged Drifter onslaught.

There wasn’t. There were 3 days of heavy activity spread out over 2 weeks, with 3 more days of a kind of feeble ‘oh, look, the GM logged in and pushed the button that sends out a few Drifter fleets again’. That’s it. That’s all their was. But wow, did they try to push that narrative of ‘THE INVASION HAS SPREAD TO NULL ZOMG!!!’

The only actual protest CCP is going to listen to is a drop in the number of Omega accounts. That’s it. So if you want some meaningful ‘protest’ move… shooting up HS is exactly the wrong thing to do.

Just go do something else for a few months, and let’s see what the Q3 revenue numbers look like at the end of October, when Pearl Abyss will release them just like they’re legally required to do.

The CSM Summit is this week. Most of us expect the majority of the CSM to be soundly ignored, because a)that’s what CCP does whenever they start hearing things they don’t like, and b)Olmeca Gold, who is so amazingly bad at analyzing data that when Noizy published his tweet about the July/August bounty changes yesterday, Olmeca couldn’t understand how he could possibly say the bounties in Delve were up, because May/July was down. And when it was repeatedly pointed out that Noizy was looking at numbers only within the Blackout, ie: July and August, Olmeca kept trying to say ‘But the May/July numbers don’t say that’… which is a completely meaningless comparison.

As long as CCP has that one useful idiot on the CSM, they’ll ignore literally everything they’re told that contradicts what they want to hear. Ask @Brisc_Rubal. Ask @Jin_taan, or @Sort_Dragon or @progodlegend. If the CSM isn’t unified, CCP hears only what they want to hear.

You want CCP to listen? There is only the wallet.

[Xucca]

@Arrendis

He’s not wrong, though. If, for example, we responded to this with a Burn Jita (which was, after all, on the table) CCP would point at that as a sign that they’d pushed us into doing something . It would’ve been hailed as ‘look, the chaos is working, it’s making the null guys go shoot people somewhere ’.

Indeed but only if there is no prelude manifesto. Which could avoid any misinterpretation.
But yeah, truth has it’s ways towards fact through interpretation.

You have a point

.

have a nice one

But I rather the in game protest than the bankruptcy headline still.

[Arrendis]

@Xucca

Indeed but only if there is no prelude manifesto. Which could avoid any misinterpretation.

Except it wouldn’t. It doesn’t matter if you have your prelude manifesto. It doesn’t matter if you make sure to never use words bigger than one syllable in it. It doesn’t matter how clearly you spell it out. CCP will decide that because there is a vocal community of idiots who are saying all the data is wrong, that therefore they are right, and all of the data is wrong, and everything is happening just the way CCP wants it to. They’ve done it before. They’ll do it again.

@Xucca

But I rather the in game protest than the bankruptcy headline still.

It would never get that far. CCP is not an independent company that will go bankrupt. CCP is a subsidiary of Pearl Abyss, and according to the numbers released in late July, PA’s discretionary ‘let’s screw around with this and see what happens’ budget pretty much eats all of CCP’s budget for lunch, burps, and goes looking for afternoon tea.

CCP is not going to go bankrupt because PA will not go bankrupt. Long before PA even shuts CCP down, they’ll turn over management. C-level people will be shown the door. And before that happens, they’ll be given 1-2 quarters to get their heads out of their butts.

[bigfatbird]

@Mark_Marconi

You cannot see it as you are only looking at what is happening to null, lo-sec and hi have a lot more people in them now, mineral prices are climbing and its looking up.

Yes they maybe loosing Null players who plex but this has been happening for a long time, thats why the plex price is so high.

BO and soon the cyno changes are the best things to happen to EvE in years.

Mark I don’t want to judge if those changes are good or not. Some people like em, others don’t. The only thing I realize is that 0.0 is pretty dull at the moment.
What I say is that CCP’s changes to EVE are (IMHO) rather motivated by a short term cash grab than ‘game health’.

[Sgt_Ocker]

@Arrendis

You want CCP to listen ? There is only the wallet.

Actually I believe another approach comes from what many are currently doing - Log in and do NOTHING. Stay docked, don’t engage with the Eve universe beyond chatting with friends on comms.

IF [and i say IF for good reason] there is just one person left at CCP who understands the game, not undocking and engaging in the game sends a very clear message.

Look - We had XXXX amount logged into the game over X period but activity, isk made, ships lost, system jumps, etc, are way down.

Voting with your wallet is but one strategy, denying CCP “content” metrics is another