There are Pros’ and Con’s to this issue , I have seen some of what the PVP crowd has to deal with , but then I think of it from the other side as well.
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Like most people, I speak only for myself, what I have read and what I see.
What I see is a null sec that for over a decade told people to HTFU now acting like a bunch of squishy marshmallow people, that want all the rewards but not a corresponding amount of risk. Who do not wish to even entertain the thought that they may no longer be suited to Null.
Just out of curiosity, how would you describe ‘the other side’? And how do you define ‘the PVP crowd’?
EVE with local could you say , it was ever safe to leave dock. Local or not you risk your ship every time you go out , be it PVP or in a Anom. Corps worked and made there space safe, and this is one of the true bottom line issues , people banded together , used local and fleet chats , roaming patrols and response fleets to jump on intruders and protect there own , and because of this happening it made the PVP groups unhappy.
You say to HTFU , maybe that should have to and learned to be a better hunter.
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Right, a tenth of the remaining salt has been harvested. Thank you all for your contributions, and keep it going. It’s still delectable. Nine thousand to go.
If CCP ups the “cruel but fair” ratio, I’m not sure we can handle the flood.
So, ideas and random speculation on further fair cruelty, ladies and gentlemen. What do you think they might come up with to make the bears piddle themselves?
I’m thinking ratting site shakeups. Once you commit, you commit. Triple the amount of tacklers, WCS disables drones and guns, etc. Balanced, since the tacklers will spread onto hunters as well, while still introducing significantly more risk to the participants on both sides. Risk being something that should have remained the defining feature of nullsec, and all.
I used to enjoy PVP , I did was in some of the largest frigate roams that ever took place, loved heading out in a SNI or Rokh when ■■■■ hit the fan . But game changes made going up against Capitals suicide. I have a few factors in real life that make my response control time not the best. If I could at times take a drake go out and solo with local up and not gripe why is it not possible for others to.
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Why can’t you do it without local?
well guess what, they run and dock, because its not safe. It is not safe. you want them to stay there, sitting ducks. Because you do want less effort and more reward and because want revenge after someone told you to HTFU
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Yet you miss the point that yes null should be safer in large groups but it should still be more dangerous than lo-sec and it is not with local. With local in a big or small group null is less dangerous than hi-sec also I am primarily a Carebear and while I have hunted I mostly did that in WH space as what is the point in Null, they run as soon as you enter the system.
As I said I hope Null stays without local as it is something the game has needed for a very long time.
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You got a legitimate beef there, though its interesting how the backing for the war coming from 3rd party gambling sites is one of those things were CCP just let the status quo sit for too long before stepping in and making changes.
Lol. My main took two years to get into a max boost rorqual. Then news comes about the on grid boosting changes and how one Rorqual will be worth 5 hulks. I take my blobs pilot and my dread pilot and put them into a rorqual. I grind Incursion LP to buy Excavator Blueprints.
In the first week of the Rorqual changes, a rorqual was dying within 15 jumps of me seemingly every 12 minutes. Thought I’d wait out the madness. Then the first rorqual nerf hit.
Never used the excavators, never fit the 2 extra rorquals. So dissapointed to have wasted all that effort.
Diplomacy doesn’t work when you have hundreds of PvP pilots who need their blood quota filled.
One agent in high security space. Storyline. Useless.
Hence, why I just fly incursions these days when I can, but even that is under threat with their only being one incursion running in high security space now. I don’t really want to get into the triglavian invasion stuff, I’m not a fan of the content and would rather not boost the number of people doing them in the stats.
Projectile or Missile fit? I guess torpedo and cruise is too big, rapid light too small, so rapid heavy?
Tier 1 industrials, Blockade Runners and Deep Space Transports.
Not always according to skill, but Freighters is as Freighters does…
Its a sad day when the best direction you can give your corporation members as CEO is to leave and join another group that supports their gameplay, purely because the other group is bigger.
But that’s how things are in these trying times.
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Local or not, it seemed more of a challenge with it and I think actually local provoked more PVP responses it let them knew you were there, and then that lovely dance of who was going to die could start all the faster.
Local works both ways .
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Actually the problem as I have previously said is not the risk but the reward.
As Null with local is safer than Hi-sec, there was a choice to be made, reduce the reward or increase the risk. CCP went for increase the risk, presumable because it is silly to have null with a lower payout than hi-sec.
Nothing to do any specific hunter or fleet. Just risk vs reward and as I have said if you cannot deal with the new level of risk there is hisec and lo-sec. Both with local.
Well, let’s hope they do. Adversity sparks adaptation, after all. But if they do, they need to be ready for the fact that the bigger groups will adapt better, even if we fall on our faces for a bit figuring out how.
Totally random? Something… inescapable. Something that hits more than just nullsec. Like a reduction in bounty payouts for rats, across the board. Loss of drone auto-aggression, the way Hilmar and Falcon were talking w/Grath on twitter. Operating costs for all ships, like a fuel cost or something, based on mass. Things like that.
Ok, but that doesn’t answer my question: Who do you think are ‘the PVP crowd’? How do you define them? Are they people who only do PVP? Are they folks who just do BlOps stuff and small roaming gangs? Who are ‘the other side’? Are they the industrial pilots who never PVP? Where do the vast majority of null residents—who do some PVE, and do some PVP—fall? Is there a ‘if you do PvE in order to PVP, you’re part of the PVP crowd that we’ve heard from’, but ‘if you PvP only to hold space so you can krab, you’re one of the people we haven’t heard from’?
What are the ‘sides’ you’re talking about?
Or, you know, they could take steps to make sure that when you show up, they have the means to leave you in a bloody heap without interrupting their moneymaking.
But that takes, you know, numbers, and organization.
Patently false. Diplomacy works just fine in that situation. You just set up ‘hey, you guys wanna fight, we’ll fight, but we need to be able to afford the ships to fight with, so don’t overfish, ok?’ Hammer out a NIP so they don’t push you out of your space entirely. If all they’re looking for is someone to fight, it’s in your neighbor’s interests to let you fight back.
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I don’t understand how this mentality can be considered valid for PvE. Carriers can align, but only if their NSA is off. Dreads can’t siege, so they only do BS level damage. Hybrids get out of range only slightly less quickly than projectiles and blasters are like trying to use a flamethrower off the back of a motorcycle. Missile have too much lag, unless you go bargest, but then will rapid heavy’s really do the job against frigates before they get that close?
What really kills this argument is what if your lag is like > 450 ms? There are too many times I care to remember where I’ve had my client send me a loss mail, while on my screen I’m still slowing down from warp. Not everyone gets a sweet 25 ms ping.
Which is fine. Use a Thanatos or Nyx, stuff the mids with Sebo scripted for Scan Res. It’s slower than the NSA, but it still works just fine.
False? I think the real reason Delve got so upset about the Drifter NPC’s reinforcing stuff isn’t just that an active PvP campaign had to be recalled to the homeland, but it meant a bunch of players who’s main gameplay aspiration isn’t PvE getting forced to play Firemen. Eventually the trigger fingers start getting itchy and next thing you know someone says that another person’s minmatar ship is too rusty and ugly…
I thought fighting for the pride of fighting was what the Alliance Tournament was for? It would be nice if CCP put some effort into the AT when they’re done muting chat channels.
Oh I missed this comment before. That’s certainly a step towards the direction I was thinking of.
I killed a rat for the daily SP. It got me like 8k in bounty. How can you dock a 8k bounty? I hear you though, but didn’t CCP reduce bounties years ago and replace the difference with the ESS?
To do what? I thought the VNI drone nerf was going to make it unsuitable for ratting? No more assisting drones to other people, or the use of civilian guns as triggers?
Have to laugh at the lets reduce , Payouts for Bounties on Rats , lower those rewards till no risk is worth it , I have a thought maybe every time a PVP player kills a opponent they have a bounty put on them adding up till killed then start all over again when they are podded. Would promote more PVP and give some good isk .
Well I define the PVP crowd into 2 play styles, Hunters guys looking for that good fight taking on a opponent of equal measure or greater odds , then there are the Ganktards only hunting the softer ships , ships that can only really run from a fight not go toe to toe.
So I guess now that I look at it more of a personal perspective.
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Everything else was good but this is a hard pass. All this adds is tedium and annoyance, unless it’s so limiting that it actually stops fun and engaging gameplay from even happening in the first place. This is something that can’t be balanced towards both having interesting gameplay effects and not being complete cancer.
Naw, the bounty system is broken. When I started playing one guy had like a zillion ISK bounty and then I learned that they have to fly something expensive when you kill them and even then you only get as much as the kill is worth, not the whole bounty. Not much point waiting for the devil to undock only to blow up a pod and get 0.
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Yes that needs to be changed 