F1 monkeying a Rorqual isn’t a position. It’s just… insignificant.
Awe now we’re at “if it isn’t xyz type of kill it’s not a real kill” 
lol
I mean they’re all pixels so it’s all “insignificant”
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Alright Miz well before you finish whatever you think is a brilliant response I’ll say thanks for the convo but I’m out, enough fun talking to someone who doesn’t play the game, think I’ll go back to FB for that 
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Not really. It’s not about any particular types of kill not being “real”. A Rorqual is very much a “real” kill. It’s a lot of value gone up in smoke, with a lot of time, money and resources invested in its creation and use. It’s even a good kill because they’re a class of ship that’s often fairly well protected, so either there’s a lot of luck or someone made a great judgment call on going for that particular one.
Every kill is a real kill, from the suicided pod outside Emperor Family station in Amarr, through Titans caught during travel or a massive fleet fight.
… but was it your kill? How much did either of us actually contribute when the fleet size passed triple digits and all we had to do in that fleet was Ctrl-Click a broadcast and hit F1 while anchored? That kill belongs to the FC of the fleet, the scouts and probers working the WHs, cynos and dodging defense fleets, etc. It belongs to the guys catching the target, defensive bubbling the QRF fleets and keeping tackle from fuckin’ up our fleets.
I’ve F1 monkey’d much like anyone else out in null, and we both know that’s basically the equivalent of being a nameless and pointless RTS unit the FC flings at a target. I’m just saying, if you wanted to try and flex on these forums, you probably should have chosen something that couldn’t be replicated by a concussed marmot or by multiboxing.
… so yeah, as far as these boards are concerned… I don’t think either of us are going to register anywhere above “insignificant” on those scales, so far. I mean, Haulie Berry over there demonstrates a greater skillset and risk taking just from the name alone than either of us have in this thread. Pick better flexes, really.
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I mean considering the FC’s exact words at the end were “had we been short about 20 bombers that wouldn’t have been possible” I’d say everyone has a purpose, lol, and if numbers don’t matter why the constant “these numbers are ■■■■,” “not enough people in fleet” ect… ect…
The point wasn’t to flex, but again to demonstrate participation in the content, now you want to say that isn’t “quality” content after saying “if you’re not going to adapt get out.” Blue balling is a staple for Null, pretty much a requirement and often the numbers determine if the other side even comes on out to participate or fight back…
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Is that one of the Horde rorquals you whored on while TEST and Goons killed it?
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Like I said ~ “I mean considering the FC’s exact words at the end were “had we been short about 20 bombers that wouldn’t have been possible”” I don’t know if I would consider that “whoring” lol, honestly was one of several kills I got just yesterday, but if we’re going to start going into the “if you’re not in a big block you don’t matter” Null conversation please refer to my post about FC’s calling for numbers ect 
(but we did thank goons for the info 
)
also just a side note, kind of ironic though (just a thought not an attack) that a goon director is making a point about the little guys “whoring” when I seem to remember the goon drake fleets at their infancy largely relying solely on numbers rather than skill against BoB but it’s been a while so my memory could be a little off
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At our infancy, we were just as insignificant as everyone else. And we weren’t flying Drakes. We were in Rifters. Numbers don’t make you significant. Killboards don’t make you significant. Everyone on this forum, in the big picture of EVE, is insignificant.
Including me. I’m still as insignificant as everyone else in this thread. Hell, a big part of my job as a director is to make sure I’m 100% replaceable. That there are people who can do my job if I get hit by a bus or something.
This isn’t about ‘big blocs’ (and jfc, there is no ‘k’ on that word when you’re talking about political groups). This is about the insistence on ‘oh, I’m an authority and you’re not credible’. I could look at your killboard and say ‘yep, the FC said 20 fewer would be a problem… and your alliance brought five’. Or I could look at it and say ‘yeah, you’re active’.
Similarly, understanding the impact of these changes by looking at the data does not require being currently active in EVE. It just requires having a functional understanding of how people behave. That’s it. All of the responses in this thread, from the people screaming in outrage over the Blackout to the people slavering at the chance to try it out, every little bit of it is predictable. Every little bit of it was predicted early on. There’s no point in attempting any kind of appeal to authority here.
Nobody should try to act like their shite don’t stink. Nobody should try to act like they are more important than anyone else here. And nobody should get worked up by someone saying someone is insignificant. Everyone is. The real question is: have you got enough of a handle on things to do solid analysis, borne out by the data as it comes in?
There are voices in this thread whose history indicates they do.
There are people making the decisions whose history indicates they don’t.
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I think you’ve misunderstood most of what I’ve said, seeing as almost every reference to “you clearly don’t live in Null” has been directed towards responses that clearly indicated as much. The point I’ve made each step of the way, which mind you many people have agreed with me about, is that it is incredibly hypocritical to come on the forums and tell people who are engaging in the content that they should do XYZ action in response to the blackout when those people aren’t engaging in said content.
Clearly you don’t like me (which is totally fine), but of the three loudest people on here I’ve seen advocate that this is a great change (which mind you is totally arbitrary) not a single one has participated, from WHers, to people whose accounts aren’t even active, to people who live in high sec. If they were participating in the content, they’d have every leg to stand on and defend their argument, and yet in each example they haven’t, and in every case they’ve proven such with rather poor points about how you can/should adapt or flat out saying they’re not participating. Saying how a thing should be and how a thing is are often far from the same thing (something I’m sure you’re well versed in from your years of telling the Dev’s the bad ideas they’re proposing and them following through with it anyway).
You can dislike me all you want, and assume I’m coming from a place of arrogance or perceived importance, when rather after watching people tell others who don’t like the content (people who are still participating) that they should quit, I called them out for their hypocrisy 
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I think the Blackout, conceptually, has the potential to be a great change. I think even you’d have to agree that I’m not a WHer (though I was, a decade ago), and I don’t live in high sec. I don’t expect you to know whether or not my account is currently in Omega (since there’s no such thing as ‘not active’ now unless you biomass everything).
I think the implementation of the Blackout might be pretty damned good, too. It’s certainly got a lot of our FCs and SCs excited and jazzed up. Our line members seem to be enjoying it. It’s reduced the number of people out there being stupid in their supers. It’s had other knock-on effects that aren’t so awesome, but that may only be a temporary thing as we work the kinks out in our adjustments.
Certainly, the dropping PLEX prices are pretty damned good. It was getting to the point where the only way to reliably use ISK to PLEX your account would be SP farming. There’s a debate to be had over whether or not people should be able to buy game time w/ISK, of course, but on the whole I think if the game is going to allow it, it shouldn’t take an oppressive amount of work to do it. And the Blackout’s apparent impact on bot numbers, as well as its quantifiable impact on nullsec PvE, does seem to be bringing the prices down.
Is that because of reduced demand? Maybe. Maybe it’s because of reduced liquidity. Either way, the observed effects so far appear to be good ones, better for the health of the game.
And as I’ve already said in this thread, and the previous thread, if people:
- don’t think they can enjoy the game living in nullsec under the current conditions
- are not willing to fly a combat ship and assist in the defense of their compatriots and their space
- cannot accept that security in nullsec is achieved only through active cooperation with others
Those people need to Get. Out.
They need to go where they’ll be happier.
If that’s under one of the umbrellas, go there.
If that’s WHs, or LS, or HS, go there.
If that’s some other game, go there.
Life is short. There is literally nothing to be gained from paying good money to make yourself miserable. CCP’s going to do what CCP is going to do. They’re pretty obviously not reading this thread any more than they read the last one, or they’re reading the tax hike feedback thread. They’re not reading. They’re not listening. They don’t give a damn.
So screaming about things you don’t like? They’re not listening.
Ranting and raving about how CCP ‘must’ do X or Y? They’re not listening.
Threatening cancellations of your accounts? They’re not listening.
Just. Do. It. Don’t wait for the sub to lapse. You’re so mad you can’t justify paying for the game? Don’t just stop paying. Stop playing. Quit. Go do something that makes you happy.
You could die tomorrow. Why the hell would you do anything less?
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And my comments throughout this haven’t been directed towards you once, until you rushed to Miz’s defense because you assumed I was attempting to portray myself of some expert when in fact I was pointing out the irony that he doesn’t even play the game but yet is honestly one of the loudest people on here…
As for me I’ve already adapted, which is why it was rather easy to defend my points of view to several of the ones saying “HTFU” or “quit/adapt” with small anecdotal evidence or snipets of zkill.
Are there parts I enjoy about the blackout? Sure, are there parts I don’t of course. I would say the biggest which is something that has been discussed pretty often is the fact that this does push those towards the big “blocs/k” and primarily hampers the smaller ones. You made a good point early on that Legacy likely shouldn’t have as much space as they do, something made rather apparent soon after the blackout, however to that point, what is the alternative? The sov isn’t going to change from a lack of local as the fleets can still be put together for those operations, but the day to day activities certainly will (as I suppose is the point). Goons is a perfect example of the likely outcome of all this, and that’s the ultimate move into larger and larger groups until slowly but surely we end up like the Chinese server. You really want to mix things up? Tell everyone the game is finally closing down in a year and watch the full on fight to the death when people finally realize their in game pixels are about to lose all their value, lol
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And again: You don’t have to play the game right now to be able to see how things are developing. You just have to have a fair amount of experience with how EVE’s playerbase responds to changes, and the intelligence to understand how they’ll react to this one.
As for the ‘alternative’ WRT TEST… the issue there isn’t the fleets. It’s that nobody who comes in to try to take that space can hold it. The worst-case scenario for Legacy is the scenario we faced in 2015-2016 in Pure Blind: ADMs dropping because nobody’s using the space, and a constant campaign of entosis harassment for months on end. Timers getting set every day of every week for months. When the MBC finally formed to come after us in 2016, we’d been doing entosis defense for six months. Daily.
Do that. Burn down their will to defend that space, and they won’t defend it.
They’ll just re-take it when you move in, and your assets are vulnerable.
And if you’re gonna do that, you’ll need a lot of people. Horde was burning people right out of the game during those early months. They’d get newbies in, get them to train cloaks, entosis links, and be completely fried 2 weeks later. The churn was enormous, and I honestly have no idea how the hell they managed to keep their recruitment going at that level.
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So to your point then, how is that really going to “mix things up” if you’re seeing the same scenario play out for different reasons?
Is null less safe now? As a whole (outside of Delve), I’d say so, but individual systems, no, which is just going to be the new future, instead of whole regions of space you get called out and killed in or people dock up ect you’re going to get caught in a 3-5 system pocket. Then what? Same people complaining they can’t get good kills b/c the population has condensed and Null has adapted? Back to the same rere’s out ratting/mining alone/afk ?
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Absent other changes? Quite possibly.
But we’re going to need to see how the numbers shake out. And then we’ll need to see what other changes CCP adds on top of this. The tax change? That’s not gonna mean a damned thing in the long run. Removing asset safety in null? That’ll push people to secure their space, to clump up more, because the only way to keep your stuff safe will be to actually be able to defend it.
There are moves CCP could make that would really give the big groups and wealthiest players more of a burden than the small groups… but there’s no change they could make that will make N+1 a worse answer to security and economic power.
So what they need to do is to have a solid vision of what they want the game to look like… and then they need to tell us what it is. They need to be able to answer questions about that vision. They need to be willing to answer those questions. And when someone thinks of something they didn’t—because with tens of thousands of brains, someone will—they need to have the courage and the honesty to say ‘Hell, I dunno, we’ll look at that’.
No evasions. No equivocations. No blowing smoke. No cutting corners.
Hilmar said something about ‘the perfect is the enemy of the excellent’. And that’s a perfectly valid approach to take. Things can always be improved upon. But CCP needs to commit to doing that, rather than constantly going running off to the next new thing to half-finish and shove out the door. Hopefully soon, they’ll even start hiring enough people to start doing that.
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Well they have a short window until PA takes over and it becomes a #'s game. I personally don’t think all the people “resubbing for content” will last more than a few months at best (mostly because my own experience has been that it’s the same thing with a pretty pink bow on it), and I can’t see CCP changing their ways and listening to the player’s given their long and sordid history of doing exactly the opposite, especially to your point that they have been even more tight lipped than in the past about all future and more recent changes.
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PA doesn’t want to take over. They’re not stupid enough to. One of the big reasons they bought CCP in the first place was CCP’s expertise in building a product and community that hung around for this long. That means they’re not interested in rocking the boat until they’ve had time to suck CCP’s brains for a while.
Additionally, PA’s got a terrible track record at making their games’ microtransaction models something that’s worked in the west. CCP, otoh, has had a very functional microtransaction history. EVE’s bottom line has been good enough to finance Valkyrie, DUST, Gunjack, Sparc…
And that’s on the strength of microtransactions. PA’s not gonna screw with that.
How are the PCU numbers looking compared this July to last July?
PCU last July: ~34k
This year: ~32k
I’m sorry but i believe you got one thing wrong here - CCP didn’t build the community that runs the product, players did.
Unfortunately CCP didn’t listen to players when they were told (many many times) This is a mistake, That needs Xy-2 to make it work , Players will manipulate that within weeks.
Now CCP feels backed into a corner they are bending that fine straw as far as they can to change things in the hope it doesn’t actually break. Sadly again CCP didn’t and isn’t listening to it players.
IMO, the straw won’t bend much further without breaking. CCP at this point need to become more open about what their plans are or risk losing control of their product altogether.
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I agree with you here they are not in touch with the Majority of the player base and just doing there own thing.
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