To your point there is no clean way to make everyone happy. However, you are making my point for me, you think cloaky camping is ok because you don’t have to do real PVP because its hard. You would prefer that cloaky ships only have to fight things that don’t fight back. The fact that you through ratting into the mix as a reason to not fix it, misses the point entirely. The point I am trying to make is the fact that this is one of the only mechanics that doesn’t have a counter to it. To provide a retort to your statement “Cloaker cannot engage a true combat ship” is very naive, if you come to someones house and camp out in there living room and say, you can’t touch me cause your bigger and better than me, is not a genuine argument.
How many hypothetical hoops do you have to jump through for that weak ass analogy to start to make sense?
I can see him. I can touch him. I can pick him up. Bend him over and do awful things if I’m so inclined. The police might have something to say about it. But then again they would evict him for me. It’s legally my house with a locked door. Real life doesn’t have to be balanced. I don’t make money in my home in a hyper competitive pvp environment. Physical walls and a million other ways to make a ■■■■ show of that comparison.
You don’t know me, clearly. Don’t read into things you don’t understand.
The bottom line is, your solutions will make ratters dock up until they know it’s safe. That’s worse than the situation we have now. Everyone knows local and cloaking go hand in hand.
Q: Is there going to be a fix or a solution for the AFK cloaky-camper game? (Applause)
A: (CCP Fozzie) So we temporarily fixed cloaky-camping really effectively in the march release. When local stopped working. (Huge laughter.) Cloaking camping really went away. But, I actually do think that the cloaky camping issue is really tied with local and so that’s the kind of thing I’d like to see us look at with the observatory array structures we may look at in the future; be able to go in and look at that system as a whole.
Cloaking really is an intel mechanic, and so is local, and we see in other areas they’re really tied at the hip in how they work. So, that’s how I’d really like to approach that.
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Yeah It’s the fear of the unknown and cyno’s are part of that.
But if local and cloaky detection both work through observatory arrays. Null sec can be changed without changing whs.
You obviously don’t understand the whole, there is no balance to cloaky ships. You can keep coming back to the “I am doing gods work by preventing ratting”. I am ok that that is the way you want to play your game, I am just saying there should be some form of risk on both sides of the game. When you understand that point you will get the argument.
I don’t afk camp. Like i said you’re way off.
There isn’t enough risk for ratting in null besides cloaky camping. Everyone understands that. And everyone understands it’s because of safety provided by local. Everyone also understands that the only reason afk cloaking exists is because of local.
Look around you. Crying and covering your ears while you say ‘you don’t understand’ isn’t going to help you. The real debate is happening with or without you.
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You apparently don’t understand what balance mechanics is all about. You keep referring to ratting, which is not the argument at all, so if that is the narrative you would like to go with to justify why you feel its not an issue that is fine. I would say talk to people that actually live in nullsec that are impacted by cloaky camping to see why its a broken mechanic. You apparently don’t know what its like to be in a small corp, not blued to everyone, and trying to make your life in nullsec. If you actually did try that, you would understand. However, you apparently can’t have an intelligent discussion about the actual issue.
You’re saying game play that is meant to be highly organised and not easy to do is to hard for your small ragtag bunch?
Too bad.
Yep. Ratting is an issue. It’s one of the economic backbones of the game and must be finely balanced. What your small group can do, goons can multiply it a thousand times over (and are). If life is made easier for your group. It is a thousand times easier for goons.
It’s tough ■■■■. Buts that’s the sandbox. Thats how balance works. Not by function of ‘but we’re weak. Give us special treatment’. The rule is, if you can’t hack null. Get out.
Look in the mirror.
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Lets get grounded on the issue first, then have an intelligent discussion, you apparently have missed the point. I will try to make this easy for you to understand.
Issue: Cloaky ships have no counter.
Example:
- You can sit AFK in a system with no risk, and providing no content.
- You can jump a gate and cloak up so, no risk.
- You can nullify a T3C and cloak, no risk.
Local also has no counter. You cannot turn it off.
Also cloaks are self countering, you can’t do much whilst they are cloaked. An important point that needs repeating regularly in this thread.
Yeah. It’s gonna take a while but i think we’re going to have to go over every point with him piece by piece.
Please explain this to me, I would like to understand what you mean? Before I call BS on your comment, I want to make sure I am not missing something.
Read back through the 2300-odd posts first, this argument has been made over and over
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Pretty much what I expected, can’t justify random statements. But I do respect the fact that you can change the discussion into some random topic, if you try hard enough you could probably blame Trump on why its not a broken mechanic to…
What he’s talking about is how a cloaked ship cannot do anything but watch. It has to decloak before engaging and even then, there is a delay before it can target anything unless it’s a paper thin bomber.
And how any ship that uses a cloak is inherently weak or the cloak itself gimps the ship.
Not sure why you can’t follow the discussion, at no point did the argument change to the damage a ship can do, or how weak a ship is. I would say it slower for you, but apparently you don’t have the mental capacity to keep up. I am done arguing with your random points that have nothing to do with the topic.
Counters have discussed in this thread and its precursor on the old forums. That you haven’t thought of them would suggest you try a search engine.
Nicely summarized,I admit my arsedness was too low to bother for someone who won’t read back.
Exactly how is that random, looks pretty specific to me. And why would I bring Trump into it ? A) He’s America’s problem, good luck. B) I’m pretty sure he never worked for CCP or played EvE
Hint your hubris is showing. Daichi has been part of this discussion for literally years. You are the new comer.
This is how balance works. It includes the threat of the ships using the cloaks, their power and their ability to tackle etc. If you could only cloak in a shuttle, we wouldn’t be having this discussion would we?
You want an intelligent discussion then do so. But you have to understand:
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The situation around cloaky camping is deeper and more complex than you think it is.
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This debate is old. Very old. I have been involved for half a decade and it was old when i started. We have thought of everything you have and more.