I could say the same thing about the cloaky campers, to be fair. They don’t want to lose the total safety the current cloaky mechanism grants them.
Personally I don’t like anything that lets anybody be totally safe, ratters, miners or campers alike.
They don’t and that’s why people like Ag3nt Jita and Lena Crews want an AFK flag or have AFK players forcibly logged out. You know, remove all the uncertainty to make local a 100% reliable and fool-proof intel tool for perfect botting income.
except they aren’t printing isk at the same time… they are not affecting the game world in any way what so ever.
Well you can’t. So people who are camped must assume they may not be. It’s the Schrodinger’s
cat dilemma: they are both not AFK and AFK until they decloak and drop on you 
Then why are you whining about it?
Cloakers aren’t totally safe, but thanks for showing us all that you’re clueless about cloaky game mechanics and just make stupid suggestions about things that are beyond your understanding.
OK. Give me one method I can use to track down a cloacked bomber and I’ll drop this argument completely.
The only risk is getting into position, and unless you’re a scrub and don’t know how to move without getting caught, that’s basically no risk at all.
If you get caught while doing the actual drop you are also a scrub, and need to learn how to read situations and choose your targets/moments.
P.S. Good job with the personal attack. Really backs up my previous points.
Actually not sure. My initial point was that it was bad that the mods were actively burying threads on this topic, but that somehow morphed into me taking the anti-cloaky-camping stance.
If anything I’m more against the current state of the cloaky mechanism in general than any specific use it’s being put to. - For me it essentially boils down to the fact that the targets I’m hunting can simply cloak and become absolutely safe, and there isn’t a damn thing I can do to hunt them in that state, and they can maintain that state indefinitely. Absolute safety is a bad thing, in my opinion.
Flood of complaints? There are tens of thousands of players and a handful manage to make their way to the forums to whine. And they always want a broad nerf not just to AFK cloaky camping but to all uses of a cloak. I have actively hunted in a cloaking ship…why should my game be nerfed? If a guy uses a blockade runner in HS why should his game be nerfed? Why should the game for somebody doing exploration be nerfed?
And of course, they never look at game balance. They clearly want an edge via Dev fiat vs. earning that edge via effort. As I noted @Alopex-Lagopus and his group managed to scan down and kill cloaky campers just after down time. Good effort. Other strategies on how to mitigate the impact of cloaky campers have been discussed in this thread and its progenitor on the old forums…again and again and again and again and again and again and again.
For God’s sake use google.
Oh God…this again. And what does a player have to do to have that safety? I’ll tell you what: sit at a safe.
Warping entails risk. There could be a bubble with cans and hostiles waiting for you.
Decloaking definitely entails risk as now you can be shot.
So to have that safety you have to be highly constrained in what you can do. That is a significant trade off.
Sounds like local.
See someone in local, warp off, dock up and become absolutely safe…
Hmmm…
Which is why cloaking and local should both be addressed.
Asking for Dev intervention that is so one sided is whining. And they aren’t injecting ISK and resources into the game, if anything they hinder that (which is totally acceptable in this game) for those who cannot adapt to and empty chair.
But cloaky campers are not asking for an edge via Dev fiat. Right now things are balanced between cloaks and local. You know that guy is there because of local. So react to that information accordingly. Move systems, try to bait him, rat in a standing fleet on comms, rat in groups, etc.
Goddamn you…I’ve had to provide a partial list goddamn mother ■■■■■■■ again in this thread.
So we are in agreement…change local and cloaks. Good.
Bzzzt! Look at killboards, look at their alliance, corporation, etc. What TZs are they active in? If they are in a significantly different TZ the probability they are AFK is higher, possibly alot higher. Try using a squishy ship like and epithal and jump through gates like you are doing PI…see if you get killed. If not then he is likely AFK or very risk averse.
No…no it isn’t. People do not behave like quantum particles. Schrodinger’s cat is to show an error in using logic that is true at one level is false when applied at another level. What a cloaky camper represents is uncertainty–i.e. a known unknown and you do not know the probabilities involved. So it is up to you to try and get some idea of the magnitudes of the probabilities. Look at killboards, coporation/alliance information (are they primarily EU TZ and you are Mountain TZ in the US). Try to bait him…yes, if he is not there baiting will not give you a kille, but it will let you revise your probability of being AFK.
Log in right after downtime and/or when he logs in and use probes. Might take a few sessions, but if you and some corp/alliance mates put in the effort you can find him.
Or use other methods to mitigate the threat he poses.
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Holy unholy wall of text.
TLDR: cloaking is OP. Local is OP. Miners, ratters and cloakers alike whine about those constantly. Arguments usually end up in name-calling and other childishness. No progress is made. Devs don’t give a crap, probably because forum mods like to bury the discussion in this dump of a thread.
And with that I bow out and go do something that might possibly be productive. Have fun.
Yes…which is why I am hoping the OA can shake up this part of the game.
The OA is supposedly coming…
That further emphasizes the censorship attitude CCP has towards the subject.
CCP is making outposts destructible… Very, very soon, so even docking in a station…errr Structure for safety will no longer be 100% safe in null.
So soon, the only safe harbor for virtually undefinable as close to absolute safety you can get will be cloaking.
If he is there for days on end all day every day.
That is one indicator.
It took an antire alliance over 2 months, almost 3, to get rid of about 16 or so cloaky campers by logging in immediately after down time scanning non stop, using triangulation, 23/7 standing fleets and constant baiting, smart bomb locked gates and instant lintel across 3 regions to drive out and keep out the cloaky campers…
Cloaking is as safe as you can get in this game short of being in an NPC station.
or they could have just baited them a few times and they would of moved on… why do null bears make everything so much harder on themselves?
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To be fair they started something with us… Then we poped ALL of there structures and displaced them, so they where kind of butt hurt.
But still.
just bait them out a few times and they would move on…
Only a few where buying the bait, but this one guy with a bunch of alts was not.
they he was either not attacking anything and was no problem at all. or your bait was ■■■■
Having a dozen different threads or even 2-4 is just making an unnecessary mess that increases the work for ISD.
Merging threads that are on the same topic has been part of the forums for a very long time. And it can help with the discussion as a good point in one thread is now seen by more discussion participants.
Oh yeah, a cloaky camper is going to somehow take that citadel through multiple timers, blow up the citadel and send your stuff to the nearest NPC station. 
Soooo…you didn’t kill those cloaky campers then? You just got done telling us you did, and now we are back to this false idea.
Egads…effort. So on average less than 1 week/cloaker, say 5 days. So we can dispense with the “absolute safety nonsense”. Good.
We had to use a lot of different methods to get rid of them and wear the cloak pilots down and the one with the alts was the biggest turd to get rid of.
Always dropping dreds or swarms of rattlesnakes when he did actually do something.
He was the only one we where able to use triangulation to hunt down as he did not move much for days on end in between drops.
How long does it take to drop a structure I wonder? Hmmmn.
https://support.eveonline.com/hc/article_attachments/360000441209/publicupwell2diagram.jpg
Well… Would you look at that, a crew can get together and crush a structure faster than a cloaky camper…
Lovely.
Considering your forum activity you should definiteky apply and try to get some additional rules in.