You’re welcome to try to kill me without me putting up a fight. I won’t just sit around and not shoot back, nor do I care about your rules that you can’t enforce. If all the players that enter your alliances’ space would get killed by your alliance, you wouldn’t be here whining about AFK cloaking, now would you?
What stops you?
The problem is that it takes a disproportionate amount of time and effort and resources to kill a cloaked ship, when compared to the potential damage and destruction a cloaked ship left to it’s own devices could wreak on a system.
A cloaked ship is almost always inferior to a dedicated combat ship. So is it the cloaked ship that’s the problem, or the cyno fleet dropping on you. If it’s the latter then you are directing your anger at the wrong module.
Also having a cloaked ship in you home system can be much worse in WH, yet we just deal with it. All the tools to do so are already there.
Yes, siting in a WH where cynos are not much of a problem and limited numbers of people can get in at you at any one time is soooooo hard.
a cloaked ship is most dangerous with a cyno.
Take away that utility and it is just annoying.
Except that cloaked ship flown well can hunt you for a long time, or scan exits to bring in reinforcements over time. That you can’t see because no local. And that can destroy evdrything you own because no asset safety. Yep, WH’s are easy, and cloaked ships are a mere gnat to be swatted.
So it’s not the cloak that’s the problem, but the cloak / cyno combination? So why ask for cloak nerfs? Ask to sort out the issue you really have a problem with and leave cloaks alone for all the ATK players currently using them.
There is a causal relationship between things in this world.
Which means that some things happen because of other things.
Or even worse, some things affected by other things.
A cyno is a problem by itself (by some pilots opinion).
A cyno on a cloaked ship is a problem not only because a cloaked ship is a problem (by some pilots opinion), but also because one problem affected other problem (by some pilots opinion).
And don’t forget about instant intel from local problem (by some pilots opinion). It also exists somewhere nearby a cloaked ship.
The problem is that it takes a disproportionate amount of time and effort and resources to kill a cloaked ship, when compared to the potential damage and destruction a cloaked ship left to it’s own devices could wreak on a system.
Again, this only matters if you are obsessed with removing a name from local. It is very easy to shut down a cloaked ship and make it unable to do anything but keep a name in local by doing the basic security precautions that you are expected to do at all times in nullsec. A cloaked ship can only threaten you if you’re one of the trash-tier renter alliances that expects nullsec to be as safe as highsec just because you paid someone to let you put your name on a system, and insists on solo RMT farming without making any attempt to stay safe.
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Apparently not, because cloaked ships keep entering your space and keeping a scary name in local.
They do die…Very slowly.
Think of cloaky campers as Bed Bugs.
Once you wrap your head around that, then I think you will understand why they are a problem.
They can be eliminated… after a slow and tedious painstakingly slow process and that is assuming they are just logging in and not moving between safes once per day.
If a cloaky camper logs in and cloaks up, you try triangulating the position [ideally with someone who lives closer to CCP servers and thus can log in faster after down time.} after several days of this you can find his position.
But if at any point he moves to another location…
You have to start the triangulation process all over again
Triangulation mostly only works against multi boxers and lazy people.
But still, that is a lot of effort to get rid of someone who is putting in almost no effort.
I would like to know which alliances that were, and their sizes. If they were renters, then they deserved it.
That’s a lot of effort to go through to get rid of someone who is 100% harmless, just because you are obsessed with having no names in local. Perhaps the problem is your obsession with local, not with cloaks? Removing local would fix this problem very neatly.
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I think your definition of harmless and my definition of harmless are two entirely different things.
Having someone around who could drop a fleet on you at any time is not 100% safe.
Removing local will not solve the problem, but only make it worse.
How does a cloaked ship drop a fleet on you? Since it’s the fleet that bothers you, I’d love to know how the cloak does that, it would be immensely useful to me in many situations.
It’s called waiting till IRL drops the number of people in the space you are camping down to numbers you can manage, then cyno in fleet, have fleet log off in system then cloak up.
Buisy time arrives for mining/ratting/missioning cloaked ship reports and you have a log in fleet split up and wreck so many that the standing fleet can not cover everyone.
That is one way.
Then you have the normal decloak and cyno way, which you may have a chance against if the cloak pilot is not paying attention and you have a standing fleet [which you will not if the cloaky cyno is smart and has been watching you for a while and learning your play patterns] and there in lays the problem, the cloak ship can gather data over time, finding when you are strong and week.
Thus to prevent anyone capitalizing in your week times, you have to secure your data. EG: kill active spy ships in your space. AKA: Kill cloak ships.
So he knows when you are sleeping, he knows when your awake, he knows if you’ve been bad [not covered by fleet because your time zone does not match up with the majority of your corp/alliance] or good [the opposite you are all on line.] good.
So be good for goodness sake!
Aka: only join a corp/alliance that plays in your time zone…
That makes things no fun, if your friends are only on for a part of the time you are on like the week ends and you need to deal with cloaky campers.
Even the largest and most well organized alliances have holes in their schedules for player down time.
So the combination of cloaks, which have no way to be actively countered while in operation.
Infinite amounts of time to observe your targets for weaknesses, so long as you move from safe to safe at least once per day making the only way I know how to hunt cloaky campers down ineffective.
Cynos which give anyone with them the potential to drop dreds or whatever nastys they want.
Safe log off, allowing a cloaky camper (or anyone) the ability to disappear for an extended period of time when things start to get a little too harry or scary. EG: people start triangulating him and he does not want to move around to avoid them for a while.
The cloaky camper having two or more brain cells to their name.
#1 Ok, in concept. {Debatable}
#2 Mechanic provided by #1 to survive WH and get safely through places. Ok, in concept. (Debatable)
#3 Ok, in concept. {Debatable}
#4 A necessary evil. {Debatable}
#5 Something everyone wants all players of EVE to have… {Debatable}
So to be clear, it’s the cyno that brings the fleet in, not the cloak. And it’s the cloak/cyno combination that people are complaining about.
So why not ask to disallow mounting cloak and cyno together, instead of trying to change cloaks that work fine in every other application in every other area of space?
Of course a cloak in your system would have to decloak, drop depot, fit cyno and call in fleet. However an ATK non-bot player should have no problem with this, right?
Generally yes.
At least from my position, I don’t speak for everyone.
There is also the permanent spy problem, but that is significantly less of a problem without a cyno involved.
Well… That was an idea that was floated a lot… Like a whole lot.
But the cloaky campers tangent complained so much, I would rather not talk anymore about it.
Lest we reawaken them…
FK it! Let’s do this!
I am just guessing when you decloak and drop the depot in your idea you have to unfit the cloak first and then fit the cyno as the two could not be fitted at the same time?
Yes, my assumption being that the bots would still get caught, but an alert ATK player still has chance to spot the depot/uncloaked ship. Some tradeoff would be needed from local too, but CCP already has that in their to do list.
Could you link the relevant information?
Please?