The problem is that every idea proposed to change cloaks adversly affects every player using cloaks for non-afk reasons.
There is nothing wrong with cloaks, just with a small group of players’ psychology (and maybe the ability to mount a cyno and cloak together)
Absolutely not true. It would be really simple to change cloaking such that at least some action was required to continue to cloak…instead of it being a simple daily log on and a few minutes of actual play to gank once a week to demonstrate oneself as a threat. For example: Give cloaks an hour timer; make them burn some fuel–preferable liquid O so they have to resupply once in a while; give the defending alliance some means to decloak them once in a while etc. Any or all of these plus many more suggested over the years can be done to actually encourage active gameplay (a recent trend in CCP) without any change whatsoever to local.
Sure, but then how would you disrupt your opponent’s ability to rely on local chat as their safety tool? The whole point of saying the two are intertwined is that AFK cloaking is the only counter to the overpowered and instant intel of local chat. AFK cloaking allows you to degrade the efficacy of using local to avoid fights.
Why would CCP make a change that both hurts those that rely on long-term cloaking to operate in hostile space and makes already too safe nullsec even safer? That just kills content and player interaction from both ends.
It would only hurt those who aren’t actually playing–essentially doing nothing other than log in and turn on their cloak. I extensively scouted for a major alliance for a year on my main in LS and NS living and playing almost entirely in enemy territory-- making a player actually be active once in a would have almost zero effect on operating deep in enemy territory for those actually playing the game. Long and short of it, is CCP has kept it this was because they think that those extra accounts bring in more income than the number of players who’ve stopped playing because of them. Even as a relative newbie of living in null or LS over the past 5 years-- I think they have it wrong–I know dozens of people who’ve left out of frustration who were in least in part driven out because they couldn’t play how they wanted because of other players who weren’t hardly playing at all: the AFK cloaky camper.
No it wouldn’t. There are plenty people hunting and dodging hunters who don’t have access to a station to dock up when they need to step away from the keyboard and rely on cloaking. It would make operating in hostile space more difficult, and improve the reliability of local chat as an intel tool. Both would result in less fights, less explosions and less engagement with the game.
I don’t object to providing some mechanism to find an AFK cloaker, but as @Chance_Ravinne said the main reason things still are still the way they are is because local chat is too powerful as an intel tool. CCP isn’t going to move on AFK cloaking until they decide to fix how local chat works so that neutral-in-local-dock-up isn’t such an oppressive tactic. CCP Fozzie has said as much:
Just nerfing cloaks will make life more difficult for wormholers and other who operate in hostile space and make nullsec resource gathering safer. This latter one especially isn’t something CCP wants to do, so any change to AFK cloaking will come with simultaneous changes to local.
Good. If you can’t play how you want (AKA “bot/RMT 23/7 with zero risk and maximum efficiency”) because of an AFK cloaker then you are weak and a failure at EVE and your departure from the game is an event to celebrate. EVE is not a game for everyone. Failure is an option, and it is a deliberate design choice that many people will fail and leave. This possibility is what makes success in EVE mean something.
As you have been told, time after time, the camper does have to do something besides press a button. Merely cloaking accomplishes nothing against competent players (and incompetent RMTers don’t matter), to turn that camping into a kill you have to decloak and win a PvP fight. The effort from the camper is already there, you just want local to be a 100% accurate threat warning so you can RMT safely.
Then stop being bad at EVE, organize your corp/alliance into a fleet, and do that PvE stuff. If you are ratting in a 50-man fleet with PvP fit ships then any attempt to engage you would be suicide. They decloak, 50 players press F1, and then you go back to ratting. Same thing with mining with a combat fleet sitting next to the barges. You just need to let go of the absurd idea that just because you calculated the maximum ISK/hour you can produce with a specific ship and strategy you’re entitled to use it in nullsec and anything that interferes with your plan is a problem that needs to be removed.
Also, ratting is not necessary for anything. Ratting benefits the individual, not the economy. Do not put ratters on the same level as the miners and manufacturers who actually contribute something to the economy and are necessary for PvP. If every single rat and mission disappeared overnight EVE would continue just fine.
When AFK cloaky camping is used as harassment to prevent certain activities from being done, then I think it’s a problem that disrupts the joy some people would like to have playing the game.
Disrupting their joy is a feature, not a bug. This is EVE. If you want to have joy you have to earn it. If a stronger player takes your joy then sucks to be you, take it back or ragequit. Your happiness is not anyone else’s problem.
It doesn’t affect the game. Afk mining or ratting does though.
And yes eve is a pvp game at its core. You should read the new pilot faq.
Dear gluteus maximus Or @Merin_Ryskin
I will say this, Do you know any corp that will do what you just said so they can rat and mine ore safely? No.
The reason is that because that just make a bigger target saying free killmails and ext.
And ratting is not totally benefits the individual, It makes wreak that other player from the same corp of the ratter to clean up if they want and getting salvage for the indy guys to make rigs and guess what? Rigs are being used in PVP and you know where the isk that the ratters gain from killing them go to? The f****** indy guys that sells said rig and ships that are being used for PVP so b**** please if every single rat and mission were to be removed then where the f*** will you go to get the salvage for your PVP rigs and how you going to f****** pay for the ship your flying without getting skills to mine then sell ore, and guess what?!?! the isk that made from rats go as this. Ratter then to indy guy then to miners so no rats = no isk in the long run for miners unless you want be a f****** whale and burn a hole in your wallet but wait?!?!? where the isk is coming from where now are ratting/missions(mining missions too) is the main source for making isk for eve online so then tell me HOW THE F*** we can sell plex for isk if there no isk to go round for? so b**** Shut the f*** up and use the thing you have in your hollow skull called a brain, Oh wait you don’t have one.
Ps cloaky camping dose hurt when you get like 5 toons that are only a day old and that are cyno ready and cloaked up
Pss The money sinks in short will take more isk out of the economy then the ingame money generators makes
In short you broken the game, if CCP was following your plan then there won’t be no eve online, just a failed game that never got off the gound.
So i will say it once more, use the thing you have in your hollow skull called a brain.
Guys, please avoid arguing around with RMTers and botters. There is no point to it, there is no point explaining anything to them, and there is absolutely no reason in listening and responding to them.
They just want to bot and RMT, so what the hell, let them rot in their grief.
Oh, i’m no botter, i’m just a nobody that really works hard to get that dank isk so i can pvp and rip brainless people a new one.
I call ■■■■■■■■ on that. PvPers don’t cry about afk cloakers, they welcome the opportunity that the prey comes to them instead of the other way around.
Oh but I don’t just pvp but I rat and mine ore and build stuff too, and what you think other combat player do when there no combat to be had or when they are low on isk?
they rat or mine ore and sell it or build stuff and sell it.
you cant just lump Combat players in just combat only, and indy guys only into indy and ratters only in ratting…
and i will say it once more use the thing you have in your hollow skull called a Bbbbrrrrrraaiinnnnn
.
Oh my god you don’t know what you’re talking about.
Yes null players rat in fleets/nearby help and have stand by fleets ready for counter strikes.
And you seriously under estimate the amount of isk coming out of null. Read an MER. Please!
Oh i know, that null is a great isk making place, and the fleet on stand by? Ha thats funny, that only happen in a blue moon, and when there is one, it more or less unless as the attacker just cyno in a bigger force and just hot drop your buttocks to hell, and if you even dare to counter cyno them then they just counter counter counter cyno you and drop more bigger stuff on you too a full blown war is raging and that what they wanted and I can just keep going and keep burning all your buttocks and keep poining out stuff that you are missing out on and just keep going.
Do note. Watch this video. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=E7NdrkKD8Vk
i believe you.
See, the thing is that the ones benefitting from this discussion the most are botters and RMTers, and there is enough reason to believe that they would cry loudest. Not rocket science, really.
The people complaining here usually behave exactly like bots, aka immediatel docking up as soon as some neutral enters. They want to farm in perfect safety, which tells me they could be actually living from this irl.
Any reasonable person would just play a different game. Someone who wants to rat, and can’t, goes to another game. The PvE isn’t even interesting or any good, so it is silly to assume they’re staying for the PvE.
■■■■ them.
What… The… Actual… [Badword]… ???
That’s some prime quality himalayan salt right there. Appears to have come completely unhinged.
Look, if you and your corp/alliance want to rat in Zero-Sec, then you have to protect yourself. If your Corp/Alliance is benefiting from your industrial work (as you claim in your earlier post), then they should protect you. If they aren’t, then why are you working for them?
Seems to me you’re complaining about other groups being bigger and better than you. And the reason you don’t like afk cloaking is because it lets them reach you.
Thats the sandbox. Learn to operate under the threat of others. Even those bigger than you.
You can’t expect the game to make it easy to avoid threats in null. Thats what hisec is for.