Wut? Where have I ever said how people should spend their time in game. I do point out that people are wrong when they say things like PLEXing an account is “free”. Those two things are distinctly different.
No I am not. And no you are wrong.
A given account can only do one thing. That you can do “A” with account 1 and “B” with account 2 does not negate opportunity cost.
Taking this example further Account 1 (A1) can do A or B but not both. If A1 does A then the opportunity cost is B. Even if Account 2 (A2) can do B there is still opportunity cost to A1 because the player is still forgoing A with account A1. Every time there is a mutually exclusive choice opportunity cost applies. Since each account can only do one thing, opportunity cost applies.
Or to put it differently. Suppose I have Accounts 1 and 2 (A1 and A2 respectively). Each account can do either A or B, but not both. Thus I can have:
A + B,
A + A, or
B + B.
If I choose A + B then what is the opportunity cost of that selection? The next best option, suppose that is A + A or 2A. So by choosing A + B the player forgoes 2A. Opportunity cost still applies.
Holy conspiracy theories…I’m pretty sure very few people in GSF give a ■■■■ about this thread.
How do you know a cloaked ship is in system with you?
Just because I don’t want to do it does not mean I won’t.
I mean, if you go back to that other thread and read the rest of what I wrote, it was all about accepting that PvP is a thing and that you can’t get away from it.
It also does not mean that any friends I might have would not be willing to do it for me, if it were possible, which is what this is really all about. Camper does not want to face the defense fleet, so they use the Nanny Button to protect themselves.
Sure it does. It lets you gather information about where they are, who they are with, what they are doing—all of which is used to determine when to attack them.
You are like a child holding your finger 1 nanometer from someone’s eye, chanting “I’m not touching you”.
Intel gathering isn’t the same as engaging in jolly explosions. So no, I can’t do ■■■■ to other people while it’s on. I also don’t need a cloak to gather all those things you mentioned. Dscan + local work just as fine for that.
Simple there should be some balance where you can be found cloaking as it’s a win win situation for the camper only attack those you know you can beat or cyno a fleet in that can win at no risk
Mike, you need to stop posting. Your opinion no longer matters on this subject. You have already admitted before CCP and everybody that you have no horse in this race. Your only concern, as we have all been saying all along, is an attempt to guarantee your safety while you live in the least safe regions of space, so you can Care Bear your brains out. And there are no guarantees, especially not in this regard.
You cannot take away the Rogue’s cloak and dagger. You cannot make him pay extra money for the right to stand behind you in the shadows. And you cannot whine and cry on the forums until CCP gives you what you want, which is a magical wind to come along every once in a while and blow the hood off his head so you can see where he was hiding.
Now what we could do, is take away Local’s instant gratification of telling you that someone is spying on you. Then you’d actually have to work to keep yourself safe out there in Lawless Space. Then you wouldn’t have this false sense of security when you Care Bear your way around the furthest regions, far removed from Concord’s guaranteed protection.
If you want a guaranteed sense of security, go live in High Sec. Then the cloaked Boogeyman won’t mean ■■■■, b/c he can’t Hotdrop any friends on top of you. And unless you’re carrying something VERY expensive, or he’s got a LOT of money to spare, he’s not going to sacrifice his Cloaky ship to Concord just to shoot you.
Did you miss the part where I’m just fine with taking cloaks out of local so long as you stick them on dscan and probes?
Because that way we would all have to work for our safety, not just the farmers.
You seem really big on double standards. Hey, lets’s make everything super easy and simple for me, but let’s raise the bar to 12 for those I want to shoot…
I’m not talking about taking Cloaks out of Local. I’m talking about taking Local out of Local. That’s the real fix.
And the “work” that goes into flying around Cloaked happens before they undock, while your “work” to stay safe happens after you’ve undocked. They had to train into, purchase, and equip one of a select few ships capable of flying around Cloaked. And all of those ships are utter crap compared to equally expensive combat ships. CovOps Frig vs Assault Frig… Force Recon vs HAC… If they wanted to excel at killing you, you know which they’d prefer to use. But if they want to move around stealthily, you know which one they’re forced to rely on.
Even though we see ourselves as light years above and beyond, in the end this is just another MMO like World of Warcraft or something. And right now you’re upset because the Rogues are too good at their jobs. They’re able to stealth around, spying on people, and backstabbing from the shadows. Well, that’s what they do. And the “solution” isn’t crying to the Devs about making it harder for them to stealth around being Rogues. The solution is putting on better armor and bringing friends so you can watch each other’s backs. In this case, the “better armor” means flying something that can’t be ganked in a single volley. And the friends are… well, friends. It’s a Massively Multiplayer Game after all.
This has been covered extensively, and you are just plain wrong.
The ‘work’ the camper has to go through is the same work everybody has to go through. Covert Ops isn’t a particularly long train, neither is cloaking itself nor even the Cyno field if you want to add that. What, you think effective PvE ships are trained in a couple of days? You think those PvE fits are just tossed together from the trash we picked up ratting? Nope, just like your cloaked camper we started out in the station carefully considering our fits too, usually with a far higher investment in training time and at least equivalent investment in Hull and Modules.
I’m not upset that rogues are too effective. I don’t care if they take ships by surprise and sneak around. I care that there is no equivalent to ‘see invisible’, no area attacks that can flush them out, no way to put them into any kind of jeopardy at all to force tactical decisions on them that might allow someone a chance at countering them. It’s fine if they only really experience risk when jumping gates or coming close----but only if there is a way to make them need to jump gates or get close. If every tactical decision they make is at their own sole discretion then they never really experience any risk at all.
If you think that’s OK, then Great. Lets discuss how others can set up their own activities once every few months and then get to carry on blissfully ignoring everyone else in the game without any loss of efficiency or any risk of failure.
Because, after sharing the exact same workload in terms of training, fitting and preparation that every player in EVE does, the farmer then has to go out and fly carefully, stay aware of his surroundings and hope that when a hunter shows up there is no random event like tackle from NPCs, getting stuck on structures, betrayal from awoxxers or anything else, because this is EVE and you aren’t really ever safe…
…but it’s OK that a cloak allows you such unbreakable assurance of safety that you can go AFK with hunters active on grid and know that you don’t even have to try to move your ship. The chances of you being decloaked by someone who didn’t actually see you cloak make the odds of getting stuck on some debris seem like an absolute certainty by comparison.
So cry me a river about friends. That one camper is flying in defiance of entire alliances worth of effort to have them not be there, and they are utterly, perfectly safe. The double standard it utterly ludicrous.
Like… Moving systems? If he wants to follow you, he kinda has to go through the gate…
Not when a wimp like yourself is the target, no. Plenty other people are perfectly capable of imposing risk on the camper. It’s only trash players like you that are incapable of it and instead are here whining about how they can’t get risk-free RMT space for barely any effort.
If it’s a trash alliance full of trash players like you, then that trash alliance has no business being anywhere near nullsec. Every other alliance will be perfectly capable of defending itself from that single camper.
Then stop giving them access to perfect information.
Against you, a self-confessed carebear who can’t PvP, any covert ops pilot knows that it’s a 1v1, their target is flying a helpless PvE fit, and your only possible hope of survival is to hide in station at any time a threat exists. Certainty only exists because you are bad at EVE.
Against a competent player/alliance the covert ops pilot has to guess and take risks. You can’t see their fit before you engage and you don’t know who they’re in a fleet with. Maybe they’re a carebear like you, maybe they’re flying a surprise PvP fit that points and webs you as soon as you engage and lights a cyno to bring in the kill fleet. You have no idea until you drop your cloak and attack.
Lets discuss how others can set up their own activities once every few months and then get to carry on blissfully ignoring everyone else in the game without any loss of efficiency or any risk of failure.
Once again, the automatic success only applies if your only goal is making RMT bots auto-dock when they see a name in local. I know it’s hard for a carebear (whose apparent skills are no better than a RMT bot) like you to understand this, but there are players/alliances that don’t get shut down by a single AFK cloaker. The cloaker may not lose their ship, but they are still failing to accomplish their objective.
That one camper is flying in defiance of entire alliances worth of effort to have them not be there, and they are utterly, perfectly safe.
They are also perfectly ineffective against a competent alliance. Farming, on the other hand, produces immense amounts of ISK. You can talk about the lack of balance in risk when you balance the rewards and remove all ISK and loot drops from nullsec PvE. Then both players can be equally safe, and be equally ineffective.