Main AFK cloaky thread

(Salt Foambreaker) #4251

He is snuggly :slight_smile:

(Salt Foambreaker) #4252

That couldn’t be it!!!

(Xcom) #4253

4000+ posts in this cloaky thread + other posts suggests otherwise.

Its almost as if denying all the posts suddenly makes them go away.

(Daichi Yamato) #4254

Thats just text book bandwagon fallacy.

(Xcom) #4255

Yapp, bandwagon fallacy when paying customers needs are ignored. That’s super good for business. Real good logic there.

(Daichi Yamato) #4256

This bandwagon isn’t about majority. First you have to show that there is a majority. But:

The proportion of players in null is what?
The proportion of those that null rat is what?
The proportion of those that complain about afk cloakers is what?

Bitch please!

And then you have to show that what the majority wants is actually what they really want. For example,

Mcdonalds began offering a salad menu because of pressure from a ‘bandwagon’. But no one buys it. The sales from their healthier are so bad that a spokesperson apparently said ‘They told us they wanted healthy food. They lied’

And then you have to show that what they want is good for the game. Which nerfed cloaks clearly isn’t. It would provide extra safety to a demographic that are borderline breaking the economy with their current effectiveness.

(Xcom) #4257

If you assume I should do customer surveys then your really trolling. How about you stop your bs and give a single reason why cloaks shouldn’t be nerfed instead. Iv given enough reason as to why. Cloaking as anything else lacks a counter and no matter how much trolling won’t stop the posts from coming in till cloaking is nerfed enough to stop the flood of cloak nerf threads. Given the most hot topic in suggestions part of the forums shows a good gauge over a need for its change.

Simple easy and to the point. Nothing of critical importance will change for active players with cloaks being probable. Absolutely nothing except for the occasional noob being caught cause he was to much of a noob to warp before getting pinned down and de-cloaked.

(Old Pervert) #4258

We aren’t the ones advocating a change. If you want something to be different, you need to have a reason for it. Moreover, it should be a good reason.

In many cases, the problem with cloaky camping is that plebs and scrubs are afraid to use the space they’re in when there’s someone cloaked there. Yet, they feel they’re entitled to use that space, because they think it is theirs to use.

So, I challenge you with two questions:

  1. Prove that it’s your space.
  2. Prove that your right to do something in that space outweighs their right to be afk cloaked in that space.

Invariably, the “Eve” answers to those questions should be:

  1. Because we kill everything that isn’t blue
  2. Because we kill everything that isn’t blue

Assuming you’re of the position that “I can’t kill it because I can’t find it”, the immediate answer is “well, when they try to engage, then can just kill them - because then they’ll be uncloaked. Otherwise, said squatter may be a bit annoying but otherwise irrelevant.”

(Merin Ryskin) #4259

That’s not how it works. The burden of proof is on the person advocating a change, there is no equivalent burden of proof on keeping things as they are. And you have utterly failed to meet that burden of proof for why we should buff RMT farming.

(Merin Ryskin) #4260

The point you don’t seem to get is that EVE is not a game for everyone. The reason it has succeeded for so long is that CCP has been willing to say “you are a paying customer, but your desires are bad for the game” and write off those paying customers as irrelevant. People ragequitting and going to back to WoW because they don’t like a PvP sandbox game is exactly what CCP wants. The moment they try to pander to every possible paying customer is the moment EVE loses its identity and begins its inevitable spiral towards death.

(Xcom) #4261

When did I ever say cloaking shouldn’t be nerfed across the whole game. How small one have to be to gauge the balance of a module based on one specific type of space in a specific scenario in a specific type of gameplay balance act. Null have other ways to get its balance act together and cloaking isn’t significant enough to be part of it.

If its not clear. Get your head out of your null a** and look at the module as what it is. No null industry balance act is based on cloaking. Everyone have clearly made it abundantly clear in this thread that null is a group activity space and therefor cloaking have no influence over null activity’s. If null is to safe then null can be nerfed by other means.

Cloaking itself however is to safe. Cloaked pilots shouldn’t ever be safe from involuntarily being engaged such as what they themselves attempt to do on others. If a cloaked pilot undocks then said pilot should expect to die in the ship weather cloaked or not just like any other type of ship. The exception to cloaking causes problems such as AFK tactics as by-product of s**t balance. Anyone who disagrees with it clearly have an agenda to carebear behind a cloak and yet expect to get kills without ever putting one self at risk until voluntarily choosing too.

Cloaking should only be used as a active hostile module for on grid engagement and active gameplay. It should however not be a defensive no scan, no decloak 100% safe blanket module. If your in any space other then highsec, and even in highsec and in war should never expect to be safe enough to ever sit in one spot and expect to survive.

I don’t give a ■■■■ about local and never said it would or wouldn’t fix null. Claiming however that cloaking is part of null local balance is a joke. At most a AFK cloaker gets 1 kill a week while the overall income of a null industry corp pulls back the loss in fraction of that the time it takes to setup the whole attack. AFK cloakers in null are all jokes and honestly nolife like idiots for kills while more fun is to be had in literally anything in EvE or outside the game. But hay who am I to judge, there time to waste as they please.

(Salt Foambreaker) #4262

Is “I’m a scared to undock” a good reason? :rofl:

(Merin Ryskin) #4263

When you focus on nerfs that have no meaningful effect outside of buffing RMT farmers (and renter trash whose skill ceiling is comparable to a RMT bot).

And you do realize that ships can warp between safespots faster than you can probe them down and warp in, right? And you will never catch an ATK player who is in full evasion mode? And that you are 100% safe while logged out? Making it possible to probe or d-scan cloaked ships has exactly two effects:

  1. Players who go AFK will have to log out instead of cloaking and keeping their name in local. This makes local, the primary defense of RMT bots and renter trash, more effective as an intel tool and makes RMT farming safer and more profitable.

  2. Probes and d-scan can now be used defensively by farmers, keeping up a constant scan and docking up as soon as a cloaked threat appears. Cloaking will add little or no value to an attack because while you’re maneuvering on-grid to get into position your target is aware of your presence and warping out.

Both of these are buffs to RMTers and renter trash whose only means of defense is running away and docking whenever a threat is nearby. So, if it’s not about RMTers, why do you keep advocating cloak nerfs?

(Xcom) #4264

How about finding a proper way to fix RMT issues by actually fixing them at the source and not relay on cloaking as a bandage solution. It’s a joke to think cloaking is the fix for it. I have no way to tell how much cloaking disrupts farming in any system but probably not even enough to make a dent. Anyone smart enough to setup in null takes campers into account and works around the problems one way or another. Stop claiming cloaking is by any means any solution to it.

(Old Pervert) #4265

He isn’t claiming that AFK cloaking is the solution to the nullbears and nullbots. He’s claiming that all you’re doing is making them even safer, while damaging a legitimate form of gameplay that CCP has clearly not taken any issue with. It’s not like they somehow didn’t magically notice the threadnaught they keep merging afk whining threads into.

They know that some people don’t like it, yet they change nothing. When they aren’t happy with how a mechanic works they’re quick to say as much. FAX, ECM, take your pick. They haven’t said they are unhappy with AFK cloakers. Otoh, they HAVE said they don’t like the amount of intel that local offers.

(Merin Ryskin) #4266

Exactly. AFK cloaking is not the proper fix to RMT, banning the RMTers is. But all of your anti-cloaking demands have a sole effect of making RMTers and renter trash safer and more profitable.

(Old Pervert) #4267

My apologies, women are far and few enough in games that I don’t generally associate female avatars with female players. Noted, however, for the future.

(Daichi Yamato) #4268

Balos? Is that you?

You’ve provided no reasoning. Absolutely none. You don’t like afk players becuase you don’t like afk players…you say afk cloakers have no effect but clearly admit that it changes behaviours.

Where as everyone else keeps telling you the reasoning behind why nothing has changed all these years. The balance of risk/reward, the effect on isk generation.

You cannot be that ignorant.

(Xcom) #4269

Thanks for making that clear Old Pervert, pretty much put the nail on the head. Gameplay that cloaks help balance needs addressed individually and will apparently take more time then possibly the lifetime of this game given the slow pace of change. But cloaks fixed on there own doesn’t exactly stop all other types of mechanics from being used or balanced to get in and disrupt any activity. At most there might be 1-2 kills a week to keep the interest of the AFK cloaking idea alive and for that type of stubborn pilot to keep camping. In the same time same group on the receiving end make up more then enough and surplus to not pack up and leave. A brain bigger then a walnut could put the pieces together and see that whatever is going on isn’t balancing itself out. Camping the system doesn’t cause enough disruption to even start to call it a counter. If camping was a counter then the systems campers would be in would be empty, but there not.

If the whole of eve had to be fixed before touching cloaking then we wouldn’t ever live to see it. Cloaking needs fixed on its own and whatever is going on in null needs a whole rethink like they have done several times in the past. Its however not an excuse to hold any other mechanic as hostage and forum warrior any opposition or flow of ideas to fix the issue that the whole topic is about.

(Merin Ryskin) #4270

Oh really? Because the number of nullbears showing up in this thread to whine about how easy it is for a single AFK player to shut down their system would like to disagree with your claim that it doesn’t cause much disruption.

Cloaking needs fixed on its own

{citation needed}

As I keep pointing out, the sole effect of “fixing” cloaking would be to buff RMTers and renter trash. If neither of these two goals should be accomplished then why should cloaking be changed? Do you have any positive effect you can point to, or just abstract complaints about “everything should have a counter” that ignore the practical realities of effects on gameplay?