Main AFK cloaky thread

(Xcom) #4271

Excluding the “nullbears” you seem to have a strong feeling towards and focus on the actual problem that cloaks bring to the table. How the hell is cloaking fixing the RMT problem?

(Merin Ryskin) #4272

It’s like I already addressed your terrible argument. I wonder if I can find anything about this…

(Xcom) #4273

Im terribly sorry your so shortsighted you see things that way but RMT can’t hold this game hostage. Cloaking needs a nerf and it will come at a cost of more then RMT mining issues. Its not an excuse for holding back fixing a module for the sake of RMT issues, nullsec activity or any other impacts that might or might not be abused by the mechanic that are in place. That’s the definition of change and sadly we can’t have both.

I however see change in cloaking as it is, a module in need of balance and you want RMT gone. Somehow you think cloaking fixes that problem and now have your brain infected with the stupid idea that we need cloaks to stay as they are for this unrelated issue to the module itself.

Null fixes don’t dictate the terms of this game and cloaking goes beyond null. Now if you actually have any arguments that don’t revolve around the small area you think everything should be fixed around then gtfo so the rest of us can have a civil discussion about cloaking.

(Merin Ryskin) #4274

{citation needed}

So far you just keep repeating this and can’t name any gameplay effect (other than buffing RMTers and renter trash) that nerfing cloaks would have.

(Wander Prian) #4275

If cloaking was broken somehow, people would be complaining from all over Eve. Instead, the only people who have issues with cloaks live in sov-null. The argument is always the same: " I cannot undock because there is a name in local"

(Xcom) #4276

What kind of argument is that?
Person A. Cloaking is broken, it needs a nerf as there are no counters towards cloaked ships.
Person B. You want safe ratting hah? You RMT miner scum who live in nullsec.

Source of complaint have nothing to do with the module. Its a thing you put in your ship. Its not a system wide balancing module, its not a anti RMT mechanic, its not meant for anyone to use it as a balancing mechanic for null space nor is it a mechanic that counters mining. It however is a ship module like ECM, guns, miners, jump bridges and many other things you fit your ship with.

If by any stretch of the imagination some link exists between people using it against RMT miners then nothing would change as null space is influenced by every single other module in the game. I don’t see anti-RMT campaigns in any other balancing thread then cloaking. Its used as a strawman to derail the thread because cloaking itself is at threat of becoming less useful if a nerf is applied.

(Merin Ryskin) #4277

One that you apparently still don’t understand:

Person A: “Cloaking is broken.” {complete absence of any proof of why, or what positive effects would result from nerfing cloaks}
Person B: “Your proposed change does nothing but help RMTers. Provide better reasons.”

Continuing to repeat the same old claim that cloaking is broken without any justifying examples of positive effects that would result from your proposed nerf is not a legitimate argument.

I don’t see anti-RMT campaigns in any other balancing thread then cloaking.

That’s because the people in those balance discussions are able to come up with positive results from their proposed changes that are not just “RMTers are buffed”. That’s why other potential changes sometimes generate legitimate discussion and attention from CCP, while anti-cloaking whines are dumped in a trash can thread that CCP ignores and CCP’s explicitly-stated position is that they will not be changing cloaking until at least after local is also nerfed.

(Xcom) #4278

Scroll up and see the numerous instances where the reason is stated. Just because your selectively blind I’ll make it explicitly clear cause you seam a bit slow.

Cloaking needs a nerf BECAUSE, are you paying attention now, it lacks a form of counter. It is not possible to engage a ship that is cloaked. Given no other instance in eve any other type of ship being exempt from being attacked involuntarily exists then cloaked ships should as well not be. If that is to much then I’ll repeat it so you can read it really thoroughly one last time.

Game good if ships blow up, ships not blow up bad. That includes cloaked ships. Got it now?

(Lumukanda Theleraese) #4279

So to make the game good not only nerf the module, but also some of the ship classes that it goes with it like covops, blockade runners, force recons, t3 cruisers, stealth bombers as well as various play styles like exploration/scouting/bombers/stalking/hunting to name a couple of the top of my head, as well as taking another swing at WH’s?

(Merin Ryskin) #4280

It also isn’t possible to engage an uncloaked ship moving from safespot to safespot faster than you can probe it. Nerfing cloaks doesn’t change anything from a defensive point of view, the cloaked ship will just keep warping away before you can catch it.

This is my point about not thinking through the consequences of your change. You don’t actually make it possible to catch the cloaked ship and force it to engage, you just give nullbears and RMTers more options for running away successfully.

(Xcom) #4281

That’s the point of it all. If someone brings a cloak then the opposing team has to bring dedicated probers to counter them. You can’t use cloaked tactics in the traditional sense as in have unlimited time to prep or choose to opt out. If you bring a cloaked ship then you simply have an advantage over the opposing team if they lack the counter setups. But if you see combat probes drop then you either have to get out or risk getting caught while trying to engage. It’s like that in any other pvp setting.

(Merin Ryskin) #4282

Except, again, combat probes do not let you catch an aware and active ship. You can warp to new safespots faster than the prober can locate you, especially if (as is the only sensible interpretation) probing a cloaked ship is harder than probing a ship that isn’t cloaked. The risk of getting caught while active is zero.

The ONLY time where risk of getting caught exists is if you go AFK. And if you get your cloak nerf, well, nobody is going to go AFK while cloaked anymore. They’re going to log out. Which goes back to the two effects I mentioned:

  1. It is no longer possible to go AFK and keep your name in local. Local becomes a more effective intel tool, warning RMTers/renter trash/etc that a threat exists and it’s time to dock up and then notifying them immediately when a threat leaves so that they can resume farming ASAP.

  2. It is now possible to use probes as an early warning system. Sure, you won’t ever catch the cloaked ship, but you don’t need to. You can reveal its existence, giving you the cue to dock up until it leaves.

Note that both of these are things that only benefit PvE players, especially RMT bots that have no answer to PvP threats other than docking up at any time an unknown name is in local.

(Xcom) #4283

Then go camp system indefinitely. No ones stopping you.

(Daichi Yamato) #4284

Local is the answer Xcom. Always has been.

There are rumours something might happen with observatory arrays, but there hasn’t been anything said about them in a while.

(Old Pervert) #4285

Yea, I keep waiting to hear about this stuff too.

(Salt Foambreaker) #4286

And what problem is that bear pretending to be a killer?

(Xcom) #4287

This is ridiculous, what is the problem here? I thought the idea was to disrupt null activity. How will null activity be disrupted if local isn’t there to announce your camping? Are you trying to get kills or stop RMT mining?

This contradictory flipfloping really shows how well thought out the ideas here are. Go camp a system in wormholes, that’s how local less camping looks like. Brainless forum warriors sitting here theorycrafting ideas of localless null and then think cloaking somehow plays a role in the grand scheme of the whole of eve.

If the idea is to log in everyday and get a kill on demand then your brain dead hopes might be putting alot of hope in these observatory arrays. You will come back to the forums crying harder then before about how RMT miners now abuse the system again. Everyone like RMT miners will adapt just as fast. It will end up being back in this carebear mindset convo were AFK cloaking is needed again cause OA didn’t do what they promised, give kills on demand.

(Rina Cotte) #4288

I’m not sure why people think it’s okay to afk in space. People get up set about afk mining. When you undock nothing should keep you safe.

(Merin Ryskin) #4289

Because it’s the only counter to local. Remove local and nobody will AFK in space anymore.

(Xcom) #4290

I think most people who disagree cry over other mechanics being imbalanced. They think its unfair and lash out in any way possible to stop any other parts of the game from being developed till there favorite play style is fixed first. They throw a monkey wrench possibly slowing down development in the areas they find in need to be fixed as well.

Very childish and shortsighted.