>gets called out for a logical fallacy
>stops addressing the issues that are raised
>resorts to personal attacks and insults
And this is supposed to convince me that your proposed ideas for changing afk cloaky camping has merit because… ???
It really isn’t. There is no problem that needs to be solved, and the only thing worth doing with ideas for solving this nonexistent problem is killing them.
AFK cloaks are considered an existing problem by ccp. One of the devs (I vaguely remember it was Rise?) mentioned something about it in an interview/podcast and that they would do something about it. So, if it wasn’t a problem before, it sure is one now.
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Link to this? Because in the past they have explicitly stated that they will not be changing anything about AFK cloaking without matching nerfs to local.
What would your mentor think if this was all your could respond with when you get asked a question?
at least you can continue to operate based on feelings
[citation needed]
Edit: alright, to make it suuuuuper simple for you.
Let’s set up just one goalpost that we can hit together.
Do you have a citation for the claim that CCP considers AFK cloaks ‘an existing problem’? If we can get an article, a devblog, an official statement, anything, we can all use it as a place to start discussions.
I’ll try to find it, but have no idea where to start looking, it may have been from a few months ago. It stayed with me because … I like flying cloakies, care about them, etc. Not making promises, not even sure it warrants sifting through hours of streams and what else 
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I had one better posted way up in this thread. Simple solution.
When you hit cloak you lose local at both ends. The cloaked player can no longer interact with local AND they also disappear from local.
But wait, the krabs didn’t like that either cause they want to keep their free local intel.
@Derath_Ellecon
Well yeah, there are similarities in the ideas, which is pretty normal because there are only a few elements of game mechanics in play when it comes to afk cloaking. I left out details on purpose because usually they put off the guys that actually have to design and produce the solution. Let them be creative and fill in the blancs, but in the general direction that eve players could suggest.
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Not in wormhole space - the main purpose there is to let you lie in wait for an unsuspecting victim, and long may it be so !
After nearly 7000 posts of the same bad ideas and whining it’s probably about time to close it anyway - the only reason they don’t is to stop another thread with the same old arguments getting started in its place.
Completely agree with you. All the more reason to try to exert what little influence we may have on the matter to avoid losing engaging gameplay options.
Yep, it’s a lightning rod for sure, a place to vent, a distraction. It could also be more, a lab to improve ideas. After all this is the Player Features & Ideas section. The dynamics of the typical discussion on forums rarely lend themselves to achieve much of anything, but don’t lose hope, lol.
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Oh good, I see you fixed your mistake and at least used the correct piece of nonsense. Too bad killboard research on forum alts is still nonsense.
But for improving ideas to matter there needs to be a reason to implement them, and there is no reason to do anything to change AFK cloaking. This thread exists for the sole purpose of keeping anti-cloaking whines from cluttering up the forum and displacing more relevant ideas.
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If you would do a search on my posts you would probably find that I myself don’t consider AFK cloaking a real problem. I remember having outlined a few existing counters to afk cloakers.
On the other hand, if people feel the need to have a discussion about a topic, for whatever reason, they can have it, they have the right to have one and I will never interfere in that right - but that’s just me.
Having the conversation is not the same as creating a problem, it’s just that, an exchange about something that could be strictly hypothetical. Without a reason (the topic itself being a problem in the game) it’s merely daydreaming, which can be fun. A conversation is not a threat. And one that is posted in the Ideas section is irresistible to people who have ideas and like to share them, for fun, education, whatever. That too is not a threat.
If ccp really does consider it a problem (and I think they do), then there is all the more reason to have a pool of suggestions / ideas. The proof will be in any announcement about changes, I guess.
Another recent one with no problem or no “dog in this fight”
Hence the almost 7000 posts in this thread.
And part of that conversation is those who disagree with the premise or, proposed solution voicing their thoughts on the matter. Which is what happens in here.
The main thing is that after X number of years and almost 7000 threads this thread is effectively one big circle jerk. The claimed “problems” are all the same, and with very slight exceptions, all of the proposed remedies have already been discussed.
At some point that is going to bring us to today where you simply have a bunch of SSDD back and forth.
Yea you’d still need to show that. Even an off the cuff comment from one dev in an interview is not very useful. This topic has been ongoing since Covert cloaks were a thing, and after 10+ years there has not been an “official” comment that I can recall CCP making. Keep in mind this thread is older, as this is just a new one from when the forums were re-made. There is an archival one that goes back further.
@Derath_Ellecon
If some people feel the need for a thread like this, no one but the forum GMs can block the conversation. Again, purely having the conversation doesn’t make the alleged problem legitimate. Not allowing people to have the conversation, by constant bashing, is perhaps what should be addressed instead. Meanwhile, the main purpose of an Ideas thread should be … ideas ?
Agreed, and it may have been just that.
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I’m confused. nobody has.
What you might call bashing I would consider strong disagreement. Again, when someone comes in with basically the same solution that has been hashed out many times, or an idea that is just really bad they are going to get strong disagreement.
To use your term the “bashing” goes both ways. Both by those calling out the idea as bad, as much as the person with the idea digging in their heels and not being willing to accept maybe their idea wasn’t good.
You can simply ignore people and so forth so those people are not in any way being stopped from posting in this thread.
You hit the weakness in the Ideas section. People are eager to point out perceived weaknesses in ideas. The first rule (and, in my rl experience the hardest to implement) for having any kind of productive brainstorming is to defer judgement. The second rule is to go for quantity of ideas. The sorting and concept building happens at a later stage. Perhaps bashing is a strong word (though not strong enough for some posters), but deferring judgement does seem to be an issue 
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The real issue with this topic is that in reality it has run its course. All of the proposed problems have been brought up, debated and put to rest. There hasn’t been anyone coming in with anything new to add on the proposed “problem”.
Similarily, pretty much all solutions proposed have been proposed already, debated, and put to rest.
CCP has had probably a decade’s worth (at least) of feedback on this topic, with about every possible solution exhausted. Ball’s in their court if they want to do anything with it.
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The purpose of this thread is to give botters and people who are afraid to undock when they are not alone in a system, a place to cry.
It’s a cry shoulder as it were.
They cry for a while, then they tell themselves we are all horrible and they alone are right. Then they feel better about quitting because they are afraid to undock!
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