Most likely imprudence. They were not in a standing fleet. They were not on comms. They did not have a cyno fit. So when they got tackled they died alone and without the means to bring in help. In Delve if you rat in a carrier or super and you are not doing those things and you die then you will be laughed at. If you tackle a carrier or super in Delve that is “doing it right” chances are you’ll get 5 carriers, 12 faxes, 3 titans, 4 supers, and gaggle of sub-caps dropping in on you in short order…so you better kill him really fast.
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Compared to how many that are ratting it’s nothing.
No, zero risk is what the cloaker experiences.
With no action of his own, no onus to pay even the minimal attention that watching local entails, with absolutely no reason to even move his ship on his own grid… he has zero risk.
The risk for others in space is that people will come into the system, either through gates or wormholes. Those people can have hurtful intentions, and so if no action is taken those intentions will become violent actions and a ship will explode.
That’s called risk, though I can see where someone who likes to hide behind magic safety buttons might become confused.
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And no way to make ISK or do anything in game. He is spining his ship in space unable to do anything to retain that degree of safety. Big deal.
Nah you are wrong. The cloaky camper does project discovery while ■■■■■■■ with others and earns money while cloaked. 
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No big deal to you, but that hardly matters in EVE.
It should be enough that he is in space and someone wants to shoot him. It’s enough for anyone else that isn’t cloaked.
You are still trying to push being ineffective as a balancing factor, yet fail to explain why that is. If I hang in space without engaging any modules I should not be safe, and neither should the cloaker.
If he wants to shoot someone then he’ll decloak…shoot him then.
It should be obvious. You should not be treated the same if:
- You are in space and acquiring lots of ISK.
- The other guy is in space and acquiring no ISK, minerals or any other in game resource.
You assume that simply being in space means everyone should be treated equal. But if I am zipping around in a pod I am generally very hard to catch and kill…but I can go around collecting millions or billions in ISK, minerals, PI goods, etc. To do that I have to get in a ship…which becomes easier to catch and kill.
Sure, if you were prohibited from activating your modules that might be a good point. And before you run the freighter…they have great big holds and move a ■■■■ ton of stuff around. Yeah, we could change the mechanics so that when empty they are invulnerable…but hey life isn’t always fair.
And Pods? They have no hold, no weapons, and no ability to do anything but move. Why aren’t they immune the same way if ineffectiveness is such a great balancing point?
How about industrials. Sure, they have a cargo hold that’s big compared to some things, but still have few slots, small tanks, and almost no ability to fit weapons. They aren’t anywhere near immune either.
You say people should just wait until he decloaks to shoot him, but that’s asinine at best. How about instead of afk camping you are just forced to wait until you find a target that does not run fast enough.
You should not have total control over the initiative of all pvp activity even with a cloak. EVERYONE (/sigh…not in a station, yadda yadda) should be vulnerable to non-consent, and the cloak fails that test utterly.
Right and catching them is a ■■■■■ unless you have a very fast locking ship and the pilot screws up. If he is spamming warp to [insert celestial/object] in his ships last seconds you will never catch him unless he is in a bubble. In HS, you will almost surely never catch a pod that does not want to be caught…well smart bombs aside. So pods are actually quite safe if you fly them smart. Don’t go gate to gate, and if you are in a ship and dying…select an object you can warp too and spam the warp button…you’ll almost never die.
Fit them properly and fly them smart. Problem is most people want to fly dumb and then they die. Most complaints about being ganked are people flying them dumb. Oh boo-fricking-hoo I but 150 million ISK in my 1.3 million hauler and got blown up while autopiloting…
No, it isn’t. That is exactly how they were designed. They were designed so that unless the pilot drops cloak or is moving between systems or warping into places where we can get decloaked, the ship has the advantage of choosing the initiative. That is largely how asymmetrical warfare works. The guys who are in hostile territory usually pick the time and location of the engagement.
No this is asinine. If I am AFK camping I am never ever going to find a target. I can’t find a target if I am not at my computer.
And they don’t. If they are are warping around they can be decloaked. If they are moving systems, they have to decloak, if just for a second. There are ways to make it harder for them to move and cloak and a good interceptor pilot or two never hurts.
Except to maintain this it means I can’t do anything. At all. To maintain this I can’t even engage you.
We have had this discussion before.
The thing is you want to be able to have an even safer time while ratting in NS. The answer is, “No.” Either HTFU or GTFO. We know you already did the latter and moved to HS. So stop your bitching.
Key point: if no action is taken. If even a minimal level of competence is assumed a trivial action (clicking “warp” as soon as a non-blue appears in local) is effectively a 100% guarantee of safety. The fact that an action technically has to be taken is pedantic nitpicking at best, and has no practical gameplay effect. You might as well talk about how the cloaked ship is theoretically at risk, because the pilot could decide to click the self destruct button and forget to cancel it.
Pods are free, so their capabilities are equal to their cost. When pods cost as much as a cloaked ship you’ll have a point. Until then, if you want to have a ship that is anything other than an acknowledgement that EVE’s code requires a player to be in a ship of some kind at all times, including any kind of defensive abilities, you get to pay for it.
How about industrials. Sure, they have a cargo hold that’s big compared to some things, but still have few slots, small tanks, and almost no ability to fit weapons. They aren’t anywhere near immune either.
Industrials can not fight (effectively) in combat, but they can make money. If you want an industrial that can go AFK with zero risk then it must have zero cargo hold and zero upgrade slots, removing its usefulness at being a transport. If you want to move cargo from point A to point B then you get to take the risk of destruction along the way.
(And let’s not forget that an industrial can fit a cloak and sit AFK in space with zero risk, it just won’t be accomplishing anything in its primary role while it does so.)
How about instead of afk camping you are just forced to wait until you find a target that does not run fast enough.
There is no such thing as a competent target that does not run fast enough. What you are effectively saying here is “instead of using the one tool that can potentially catch a competent player just settle for only catching the lazy and/or stupid players who voluntarily commit suicide while the rest of us farm ISK with zero risk”. No thanks.
You should not have total control over the initiative of all pvp activity even with a cloak.
You don’t have total control. Your target still has the ability to leave the area before you can engage them, bring friends that force you to withdraw, etc. The fact that you are too incompetent to imagine any counter to cloaked tactics besides “press the decloak button and receive a killmail” is not my problem. Nor is it justification for balance changes.
Also, you’re once again ignoring the fact that it’s more than just a cloak that gives you the initiative advantage. With the exception of T3s (which are a stupid design decision overall and need to be removed or at least massively nerfed) the only ships capable of using a cloak in PvP are vastly inferior in direct combat. Taking the initiative advantage means paying for it by having very little hope of winning a 1v1 fight against an equivalent-class ship. So, while you have an advantage in the battles you do fight, there are far fewer battles that you are capable of fighting and you spend a lot more time hiding in a safespot wishing you had a more powerful ship.
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Not empty quoting.
Look if you were not doing anything to begin with…you’d have a legit point. If you were sitting there gathering no ISK, minerals, or anything else that is tangible game resource…okay. But the thing is you weren’t. You weren’t just hanging at a safe spot. You were acquiring ISK. You were acquiring ores/minerals. You were gaining in game items.
Here is a thought experiment for you…you can have the same safety as a force recon at a safe and cloaked, but you get the same ■■■■ tank and the same ■■■■ DPS when facing off against the exact same rats you are fighting now. Everyone rats in an Arazu or Rapier right? Yeah, didn’t think you’d go for that.
Here’s an idea. What if null were turned into a k-space parallel to wormholes? No local without voluntary surrender of info and so on. (No sleepers tho)
Basically, making null the same as WH space mechanically has two benefits:
Cloaky camps are nulled a bit more.
No one knows who’s there without saying something to them or hearing something from them first.
This would also be logical, as null could be viewed as a place where you’d expect the only things to be maintained and kept by the inhabitants to be some stations and the star gates.
Of course, you could also make cloaks overheat slowly (but not take damage until high heat) so they burn out if you use them for too long, but I mean…
This would be a buff for cloaky campers.
What would be the point if nobody knows you are there and cloaked?
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Why do you care? You’ve never PvPed once in the game. How would you know what you should/shouldn’t be able to do when you have no experience one way or the other?
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Exactly. If local no longer exists there is no reason to stay logged in if you are not at your computer and able to actively hunt a target. You don’t need to worry about your targets getting an automatic “dock now” warning as soon as you become a threat, so why stay logged in and risk an accident? All the former AFK cloakers would simply log off instead of going AFK.
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