Wow, you truly are a special snowflake.
Wow, people are still using this insult in 2018? Do you need someone to invent a new one for you? I can be pretty creative but it’ll cost you.
BTW I’m assuming those with no actual arguments are the ones who most lack the skills to gank people without their cloaks and bubbles.
Ok, so now we’re talking about what is supposed to be the most dangerous space in EVE, and you seem to think that it’s unfair that PvE players face huge risks and frequent death. Seems like everything is working as intended.
Nope. If you’re scrammed and webbed/slow, the only chances of escaping are getting close to a gate/WH or someone helping you. Oh and you need enough tank to survive that long.
You don’t get it. Your chance of escaping through skill happens before you are webbed and scrammed. If you are webbed and scrammed it is because you have had your chance of escape through skill, failed to escape through skill, and now face the (fatal) consequences of failing. You don’t keep getting more chances to escape just because you don’t like the idea of dying.
Instead of hallucinating what I’m demanding, why not just ask?
Ok, what are you demanding for an escape chance that is not exactly what I describe? Because you’re making it pretty clear that you want more safety for people who already have plenty of chances.
It’s true. You can’t align at 0m/s.
Here’s a novel idea: don’t be at 0m/s. Stop being terrible at EVE.
I’ve been living in W-space for many years. I’ve been ganked by cloakies, I’ve ganked with a cloaky ship, I’ve used bubbles both offensively and defensively and I’ve yet to see how they are overpowered or an automatic IWIN -button. There are many things you can do to if not totally counter them, diminish their effectiveness. Especially in W-space, intel is key to survival. That’s why scouting is so important. You don’t go mine or do PI without first knowing what is going on in your system.
Also, mining in a covetor is just asking to get blapped.
you seem to think that it’s unfair that PvE players face huge risks and frequent death.
Once again with the strawman, proving beyond any reasonable doubt that even you know you’ve lost the argument.
Your chance of escaping through skill happens before you are webbed and scrammed.
In which case no active skill is involved. Finally, you admit it.
Instead of hallucinating what I’m demanding, why not just ask?
Ok, what are you demanding for an escape chance that is not exactly what I describe? Because you’re making it pretty clear that you want more safety for people who already have plenty of chances.
No, this is you hallucinating.
As I’ve said about 5x now, I want good game design. Proper PvP. No auto-lose.
It’s true. You can’t align at 0m/s.
Here’s a novel idea: don’t be at 0m/s.
So in order to align, you move away from where you need to be in mining et al.
Stop being terrible at EVE.
I’m not the one who’s terrified of losing their auto-win cloak.
I have to admit that’s the first time I’ve seen a WH player moan about cloaks and bubbles. Either they aren’t really a WH player (not checked zkill so don’t know where they usually die) or should reconsider their choice of space.
I admit no such thing. Active skill is involved before the web + scram happens. The fact that the transport pilot failed in the test of skill and got caught doesn’t mean that no skill was involved.
As I’ve said about 5x now, I want good game design. Proper PvP. No auto-lose.
Which you will not be getting in EVE. If I drop 100 ships on you then you lose, period. You will never remove auto-loss PvP in a game that encourages attacking people with overwhelming force.
So in order to align, you move away from where you need to be in mining et al.
Yep. Perhaps this will require you to be actively flying your mining ship, back and forth on a loop that keeps you aligned most of the time but without taking you out of mining range. How unfortunate that AFK mining is not a very safe way of mining in a PvP game.
I’m not the one who’s terrified of losing their auto-win cloak.
Ah, the tired old bleating of pathetic carebears. Cloaks are not auto-win, no matter how many times you repeat the same idiocy.
Even if you get caught by a good trap (or luck) your fitting choice and use of the environment can still save you (albeit at a bum-squeeky 14% structure…umm…according to a friend).
I admit no such thing. Active skill is involved before the web + scram happens.
Where? Where is the skill? Where is the challenge? Where is the gameplay?
You will never remove auto-loss PvP in a game that encourages attacking people with overwhelming force.
Nor did I ever say it could be removed completely.
Auto-loss PvP is just bad game design. That’s an unalterable fact.
Yep. Perhaps this will require you to be actively flying your mining ship, back and forth on a loop that keeps you aligned most of the time but without taking you out of mining range.
Good luck with that on a Venture.
How unfortunate that AFK mining is not a very safe way of mining in a PvP game.
Yes because mining has no other advantages. But it’s irrelevant to this thread.
I’m not the one who’s terrified of losing their auto-win cloak.
Ah, the tired old bleating of pathetic carebears.
Carebears who are terrified of losing their auto-win cloak?
You’ve already admitted that decloaking range can be increased.
Your argument for cloaked warping is that you might have to use skill otherwise.
I’m not sure why you’re still arguing.
How about you try talking with your corporation and ask for tips on how to operate in W-space. You seem to apply the same methods to W-space as K-space (well, highsec to be exact). The biggest way to increase your safety in wormholes is to work together. Going around alone is the easiest way to lose your ship. Also directional scanner is your new best friend, lover, significant other and many other things combined. Learn to use it (pro-tip: an interdictor cannot warp cloaked.)
For the mining while aligned, check out Higgs anchor -rig.
Are you honestly asking such a stupid question? Scouting routes, approaching gates from unconventional directions to dodge bubbles, making the right call on trading cargo space vs. evasion, etc. There’s plenty of skill involved in avoiding attacks, which is why good hauler pilots don’t lose their ships very often while stupid hauler pilots generate nice killmails.
Auto-loss PvP is just bad game design. That’s an unalterable fact.
And its existence in EVE is unalterable fact, because the game allows you to bring additional players in your fleet until your target has zero chance of survival.
Yep, 100% accurate. Repeating over and over again that it’s an “auto-win” doesn’t make it true.
You’ve already admitted that decloaking range can be increased.
I admitted no such thing. Though, hilariously, increasing decloak range would be a buff to gatecamps (which you hate) and mostly a nerf to carebears trying to escape those gatecamps. You whine about an “auto-loss” for haulers while simultaneously advocating a massive nerf to one of their primary options for escape.
Your argument for cloaked warping is that you might have to use skill otherwise.
No, my argument for cloaked warping is that cloaks are worthless without it. If you have to decloak to warp you appear on d-scan (and on overview when you warp in), your target knows you are there, and there is no stealth at all. Remember how the only ships that bother to fit non-covert-ops cloaks are carebears trying to MWD + cloak their hauler through a gatecamp, and nobody tries to use them in PvP? Removing the only useful PvP cloak just means that people will take the vastly more powerful non-cloaking ships instead.
In short, your idiotic idea is effectively “REMOVE CLOAKS MY FARMING NEEDS TO BE SAFER AUTO WIN WAAAAAAH”.
No such thing. Cloaks and bubbles are an auto-win, nothing could possibly counter them.
In fairness I do have to remind Merin about black ops -battleships cannot fit covops cloak, but do use normal cloaks, dictors fitting prototype cloaks for the surprise -factor. Both are ship-types that use non-covops cloaks for PVP. Most cloaky-ships do utilize the covops-cloak though.
This is true. There are a few edge case situations like black ops using a cloak to hide in a safespot while they wait for the next jump, but it’s extremely rare for a PvP ship to ambush something out of cloak without a covops cloak.
I know. Just wanted to point it out to be totally fair for the discussion.
Though cloaked interdictors are surprisingly effective when used correctly.
Scouting routes, approaching gates from unconventional directions to dodge bubbles, making the right call on trading cargo space vs. evasion, etc.
None of this is active skill. None of this is even vaguely interesting gameplay.
You’re clearly not interested in good game design. Again, I don’t know why you’re arguing… apart from lacking skills to get kills without cloaks.
Auto-loss PvP is just bad game design. That’s an unalterable fact.
And its existence in EVE is unalterable fact, because the game allows you to bring additional players in your fleet until your target has zero chance of survival.
And still you’re with this strawman. You haven’t come up with an actual counterargument in your last 6 posts.
Yep, 100% accurate. Repeating over and over again that it’s >an “auto-win” doesn’t make it true.
Now you have to literally lie about what I said.
Don’t you see how obviously desperate this makes you look?
Your argument for cloaked warping is that you might have to use skill otherwise.
No, my argument for cloaked warping is that cloaks are worthless without it.
Again I can just let the stupidity of your words speak for themselves.
How is it not “active skill”? You are actively making choices and out-playing your enemies. You can’t just dismiss everything that isn’t “press F1 to ignore PvP” as not being skill.
As for the rest, your pathetic bleating is growing less and less entertaining with every iteration. You have no clue how PvP works, all you have is endless whining as if you can say “AUTO-WIN” enough times and it will magically become true. Thank god the developers have zero interest in listening to people like you (as demonstrated by the existence of this trash can thread where all the cloaking whines are dumped, never to be seen again) and once we finally grow tired of acknowledging your existence your descent into irrelevance will be complete.
Just out of curiosity, what do you define as “active gameplay” ? How do you define an engagment? There’s an old saying in eve: “If you ever find yourself in a fair fight, someone has already made a mistake”. How likely you are going to win or lose a fight start way before 2 ships ever see each other or lock targets up. It start with your fit, how you use any intel you have or will gather, how you position yourself in the site, are you playing alone or not, etc.
If you get caught and die, the mistakes that led to that situation start way before anyone decloaked or put up a bubble around you.
How is it not “active skill”?
Realtime skill you actually use to respond meaningfully to the threat when it appears.
Not an ingame skill. Not a button or key press. Something involving tactics, co-ordination, timing etc.
Also agency – the ongoing ability to make choices that influence your fate.
Here’s another way to think about it: how can dying whilst being ganked be made more fun or more meaningful?
By learning from your mistakes that led to that moment and avoid them next time, maybe even get revenge at some point down the line?
By learning from your mistakes that led to that moment and avoid them next time, maybe even get revenge at some point down the line?
Yawn.
What you wrote is true for every single terrible game ever invented. And is thus utterly irrelevant to what makes a good game.