Actually, I’m moving crap around for my invention business…not terribly exciting. But okay ISK.
I am honestly completely lost here, and can’t find anything resembling a coherent point. Can I have some of whatever drugs you are on? They seem to be pretty good.
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This is a dumb argument.
The same argument could be made for ratters who dock up when they see a ship in local. Why should their game be impacted by those who are not at the keyboard being allowed to stay logged in and cloaked?
I’m not saying the idea would be a good one… I’m simply saying the argument against the idea that “If you’re at the keyboard your game should not be nerfed” is a dumb argument. You can use that to argue against almost any suggested change in any area of the game as long as some person is ATK while doing the action that got nerfed.
Find better reasons.
That isn’t the argument. The actual argument is that ATK cloaking is not a problem and should not be nerfed. And we should not accept nerfs to those players as a consequence of your absurd crusade against AFK players.
Why should their game be impacted by those who are not at the keyboard being allowed to stay logged in and cloaked?
Because local is giving them information they shouldn’t have. Remove local and AFK cloakers will no longer exist.
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What’s truly absurd is the idea that a module should be changed (affecting everyone who uses said module) because a certain group of players are too scared to undock with an unknown name in system.
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What’s also absurd is the idea that a person who is actually asleep in his bed can remain logged in and waste the time of both those hunting and running from him because they think he’s a real person instead of an unattended session.
Log off inactive players after 20 or 30 minutes. All of the problems related to AFK players go away.
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I see your ‘auto-logoff’ play, and raise you a ‘Delay local by 20-30 minutes in return’…
Fixed for accuracy.
I can raise this, actually. There is a certain, tiny minority of players who demand mechanics changes affecting everyone, simply because they refuse to do what is the norm in this game.
There… even better.
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Appreciated, forgive my over-estimation 
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I still just have a fundamental disagreement with the idea that making it more difficult to find other players to interact with is a good idea.
My entire focus for this whole thread has been to make it easier to tell if others are there. Not logged in… but actually at their keyboard and present. My view is that it’s important in a massively multi-player game for the “players” to be… playing. Not asleep while logged in. I also think it’s important to be able to know that they’re present if they’re playing instead of both of you passing each other in the night because you’re in non-probe equipped recons.
The minimum requirement for interaction between players in a MMO… is that:
- They’re at their computer.
- They know someone is present.
- Some way exists for at least one of them to find the other.
While I know those things don’t ensure interaction happens… I think things that take away from those things make it harder to get interaction.
For the first one… letting people stay logged in but AFK all day (regardless of if they’re cloaked or in a station/citadel) makes it harder to tell people are at their computer.
For the second, removing or nerfing local makes it harder to tell if someone is present in system.
I think changes they’ve made to harm this stuff already should be reversed. The changes with contacts so people couldn’t be notified when someone else logged in… that was a bad move for the same reasons that removing local or allowing people to stay logged in AFK is bad.
I simply don’t think there’s anything wrong about being able to know if someone is present and ensuring that they are actually at their computer so you don’t waste time chasing an empty seat.
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Yes, and that’s exactly the problem. You want it to be easier to tell if a threat exists, which means that PvE farming becomes effectively 100% safe. There is zero chance that, while you are farming, a threat appears before you can retreat back to station once it appears in local.
Also, d-scan exists for a reason. Try using it?
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Therefore remove local. Nobody will bother remaining logged in while asleep, so you can guarantee that if you see a ship on d-scan it’s an active player.
This is funny because docking and staying docked as soon as someone enters local is not really playing either. 
Please remember that most of these people are just bots and not actual players.
Look… I want it easy for both sides to see the other is there. Both can run to engage. Both can run away. One can run and the other can chase. But none of that happens if both are unaware the other even is playing the game.
I firmly believe that if you make it harder to see the other is there… it decreases the risky behavior by risk adverse players and makes it harder for those seeking conflict to find it.
When I’m ratting in null… I’m not going to take out a Krabbing carrier or bling fit rattlesnake if I don’t feel safe. That kill will be off the table for all hunters. I’ll rat in cheaper VNI’s instead. If I’m mining it won’t be in a exhumer/orca… at best it will be a barge/porpoise setup.
Killboards show that people make stupid mistakes all the time and lose expensive ships. But if there’s not some feeling of safety… they won’t risk those expensive ships. They might switch their activities to something else entirely.
And I don’t think removing activity from null is the best thing for null-sec in eve.
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Sure it is. Running away from someone who can kill you is 100% playing the game. Plenty of PvP players do that too when they are in those situations.
When I’m ratting in null… I’m not going to take out a Krabbing carrier or bling fit rattlesnake if I don’t feel safe. That kill will be off the table for all hunters. I’ll rat in cheaper VNI’s instead. If I’m mining it won’t be in a exhumer/orca… at best it will be a barge/porpoise setup.
Great. Then you’ll suffer a massive reduction in ISK/hour in exchange for minimizing your losses.
And that kill is already off the table for all hunters because it’s impossible to catch you when local exists. The delay between a threat entering local and potentially getting tackle on you is longer than the time required for you to enter warp to a station. The only way around this is AFK cloaking, putting a character in your system 23/7 so you can no longer tell if the name in local represents an active threat or an AFK player and you have to take a risk if you don’t want to have your income completely shut down.
One can run and the other can chase.
Except there is no chase. Once you press “run” you enter warp to station and become 100% safe from any pursuit.
Killboards show that people make stupid mistakes all the time and lose expensive ships. But if there’s not some feeling of safety… they won’t risk those expensive ships.
And now you’re contradicting yourself. People make stupid mistakes all the time, but magically won’t make stupid mistakes when it’s convenient for you to assume smart play.
I smell an incompetent ceptor pilot
Next one please
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I see a person who doesn’t understand game mechanics. An interceptor can not get point on a ship before it warps out unless you have another player already in the system to locate the target and tell you where to warp. And even that is going to require flawless execution and quite a bit of luck with the target being located near the gate you jump in through.
Logofftrap/carriers warp very slowly, you can catch them
I said next one, not the same incompetent elite pvper.
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