Logoff traps only work against stupid players, the kind of idiot who goes right back to where they were the moment the threat initially arrived. The smart player moves to a new site, and your trap is no better than jumping in through a gate.
Carriers align slowly, but they also have effectively infinite engagement range so there’s nothing stopping you from being aligned (preferably far off the warp-in point) at all times and able to instantly warp as soon as they click the button. You’re talking about a tiny window of vulnerability that you have to arrive in by sheer luck, where the carrier has just warped to the site and is still in the process of aligning. And you’d better hope your friends arrive immediately, otherwise the carrier can neut your point off and warp out.
Both of the methods work and they happen often so i really dont understand why are you still whining… are you jealous of other people’s isk or something?
They work because EVE is full of stupid people, the people who will die no matter what the mechanics are. TBH most of the people you’re killing are probably dying to the NPCs just as often. But in game design you don’t assume that the players are stupid, you balance around the assumption that everyone involved is competent. And the simple fact is that you will not catch a competent player with your interceptor because the minimum time required for you to get to them is longer than the time required for them to escape to safety.
Except as zkill shows us… it’s not and never has been off the table.
Blingy ratting ships get caught in null all the time. It may not be easy… but it’s CLEARLY not impossible. What is impossible is to catch ships that don’t get used.
But hey, if they make the change we’ll see. I just think you are very mistaken if you think null ratting and mining will give even close to the same number of targets for hunters if local is removed. People don’t go from being risk averse to being okay with risk just because a rule changes. Their play will change as well.
Stupid mistakes with expensive ships only happen if people use the expensive ships. Risk averse people won’t use expensive ships in null or lowsec without local.
Again, stupidity. Stupid people, people playing while drunk, etc, happen and will continue to happen. Competent players will never be caught, but EVE is full of people who RMT expensive ships and promptly die.
People don’t go from being risk averse to being okay with risk just because a rule changes. Their play will change as well.
Great. I’m also happy with a world where nullsec is less populated but the few remaining players are the competent survivors and making stupid amounts of money because they have a monopoly on endgame PvE. The risk adverse players moving back to highsec and/or ragequitting (preferably the second, because in my ideal game highsec has no endgame content) is a good thing.
No, nobody catches competent farmers in nullsec. It’s literally impossible because of local. You can not load the system, orient yourself, pull up the scan list, activate d-scan enough times to narrow down a target (at the cost of two seconds every time you press the button), click “warp”, align and enter warp, warp to the target’s location, exit warp and clear your “still in warp, no targeting” flag, and get a lock before the target can align and enter warp.
And that’s the best case scenario, where the target is sitting within tackle range of the warp-in point. MJD off the warp-in and snipe from long range? That’s extra seconds for you to burn into range, seconds you don’t have. Flying a ship that can fight while aligned? Forget it, their warp-out time is less than a second after you enter local. At a site more than 14.9 AU from the gate you jumped in through? Game over, don’t even bother trying.
So I can catch stupid people that I can already catch? No thanks. Unless there’s a way to train your name not to appear in local, or to remove the 2-second refresh timer on d-scan?
No, nobody can catch them. It is literally impossible. You can not click the buttons and execute the warp process fast enough. 1-2 seconds to load the system, 2-3 seconds to pull up the list of sites and begin d-scan, 2 seconds per scan you want to execute, 1-2 seconds to align and enter warp once you click “warp to”, several seconds (depending on server lag) to exit warp and have the client allow you to begin a target lock. Add up all of those seconds and you get a time longer than the time required to enter warp once your name appears in local. And that’s with flawless execution of the process, against a target that is within tackle range of the warp-in point, you probably need to add a few more seconds to that time in any real situation.
And of course with missile boats, carriers, etc, that can fight while aligned the warp-out time is 1-2 seconds. You won’t even have time to load the system and be able to press buttons on your client by the time your prey is in warp to station.
Average haven/sanctum site per null system is 2. Have 2 ceptor pilots. Omg dude you will learn alot of things tomorrow on the ceptor training. I love flying with newbies.
The only thing I’m going to learn from you is how to be a narcissist troll. Keep masturbating to how great you are at catching incompetent PvE farmers and ignoring the minimum time required to catch a competent player.
Let’s assume you’re right. 1-2 seconds for a “competent” farmer to warp out. It takes you “several” seconds to be able to lock once on grid.
So basically as long as the farmer is competent… you can’t catch them either way. As soon as you show up on grid, they click dock… and you’ll never catch them… if they’re competent. Regardless of local. And that’s even assuming they aren’t using d-scan.
So given the fact your only available targets are incompetents anyway… wouldn’t you want more of those targets present for you to shoot? Because by your own statements, you will never be capable of ever killing a competent player who’s farming sites.
And yes, you may never catch the best farmers that stay aligned at all times. But you can certainly cut the margin significantly and ensure that only the best players have that easy escape, rather than the current situation of all but the most incompetent farmers having near-100% safety against all but the absolute best interceptor pilots.
I fit my pve ships for running the sites effectively + evasion. You fit your pvp ships to catch others effectivly + dps/tank.
If you are in a ceptor fleet and we hunt you with a caracal fleet, why are you running away from us? Because you dont want to be killed… ratters dock up for the same reason. They are not fitted for pvp, but the guys i know usually dock and reship/organise a fleet against the attackers. I think most nullsec players do the same.
I think we can all agree that the current mechanics allow someone with perfect play to 100% avoid PvP in nullsec. Yes, inattention can result in failure and happens, but as @Merin_Ryskin correctly points out, the math means someone who is aligned has plenty of time to warp to a safe place before there is any chance of an interloper catching them.
I think that should be possible. You should be able to be near perfectly safe with perfect defensive play. However, the question is should you be able to do that at no cost (local is free) and with no trade-off (that is using essentially max PvE fit ships)? I don’t think so, at least from a good game design point of view.
There should be risk and gameplay around fitting max yield and there currently is not. The perfect and free intel of local makes those decisions pretty much irrelevant. I don’t know what the solution is, but clearly the status quo isn’t ideal. The power of the intel provided by local trumps pretty much everything else, everything except perhaps an AFK cloaker.
AFK cloaking is the only tool available to disrupt the perfect and free intel of local and as such isn’t going away without local going away, or at least being nerfed somewhat as an intel tool. We can wrangle all we want, but the two are inextricable linked. Nullsec needs a serious facelift when it comes to the mechanics of hunting and intel, and I really hope the that isn’t going to be pushed off the roadmap by whatever they have in store for us next week at FanFest.
I use every tool i can to stay safe while ratting with my carrier, still i almost lost it two times. Wh popped up when i begun warping to the next site and i couldnt stop it. A smaller fleet came thru and they instawarped to the only sanctum in the system. I landed on two sabres and a cruiser gang was following them, but my bros arrived in time and we pushed them back to their dark hole. The other time i was fighting the npc dread and didnt pay enough attention to local, yea that was my fault, bros saved the carrier again but that was the attackers fail. There is always a risk when you undock in nullsec, except if you are cloaked in a safespot.
